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To: Emile Vidrine who wrote (28769)12/23/1999 1:38:00 PM
From: Emile Vidrine  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 39621
 
One more word on the slander of the Markoffs:

The Markoffs have repeatedly shown by their posts that they value the
star of David above the Cross of Christ. The sceptre of the Kingdom is righteousness through the Cross of Christ, not the sceptre of the Star of David over a worldly antichrist nation created by Judaism.

The Kingdom of God is not meat and drink, but righteousness, peace and joy through the Holy Ghost. The little stone of Christ's Kingdom will destroyed every kingdom of he flesh established by man.

Glory be to God the Father, the Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit now and forever.



To: Emile Vidrine who wrote (28769)12/23/1999 10:05:00 PM
From: Brumar89  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 39621
 
Given how this thread has been lately, I've been trying to avoid any posting. But with Emile back, I just can't resist. I am moved to respond solely because of Emile's recommendation of Luther's "On the Jews and Their Lies" (see below):

Luther's opinion about modern Judaism can be read in his book: THE JEWS
AND THEIR LIES. Luther's book is an historical treatise that should be
read by all Christains to help them understand the true antichrist
nature of modern Judaism.


This sounds like a clear endorsement of the material in Luther's work to me. Well, read on and judge for yourself. Since Emile has recommended "On the Jews and Their Lies" as a book that all Christians should study, I'm sure he'll appreciate me quoting some passages from it:

What shall we Christians do with this rejected and condemned people, the
Jews? Since they live among us, we dare not tolerate their conduct, now
that we are aware of their lying and reviling and blaspheming. If we do,
we become sharers in their lies, cursing and blaspemy. Thus we cannot
extinguish the unquenchable fire of divine wrath, of which the prophets
speak, nor can we convert the Jews. With prayer and the fear of God we
must pratice a sharp mercy to see whether we might save at least a few
from the glowing flames. We dare not avenge ourselves. Vengenance a
thousand times worse than we could wish them already has them by the
throat. I shall give you my sincere advice:

First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover
with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a
stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of
Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not
condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and
blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians. For whatever we tolerated
in the past unknowingly - and I myself was unaware of it - will be
pardoned by God. But if we, now that we are informed, were to protect
and shield such a house for the Jews, existing right before our very
nose, in which they lie about, blaspheme, curse, vilify, and defame
Christ and us (as was heard above), it would be the same as if we were
doing all this and even worse ourselves, as we very well know.

Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they
pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might
be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring
home to them that they are not masters in our country, as they boast,
but that they are living in exile and in captivity, as they incessantly
wail and lament about us before God.

Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in
which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken
from them. . . .

Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on
pain of loss of life and limb. For they have justly forfeited the right
to such an office by holding the poor Jews captive with the saying of
Moses (Deuternomy 17 [:10 ff.]) in which he commands them to obey their
teachers on penalty of death, although Moses clearly adds: "what they
teach you in accord with the law of the Lord." Thoses villains ignore
that. They wantonly employ the poor people's obedience contrary to the
law of the Lord and infuse them with this poison, cursing, and
blasphemy. In the same way the pope also held us captive with the
declaration in Matthew 16 {:18], "You are Peter," etc, inducing us to
believe all the lies and deceptions that issued from his devilish mind.
He did not teach in accord with the word of God, and therefore he
forfeited the righ to teach.

Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished
completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside,
since they are not lords, officials, tradesmen, or the like. Let they
stay at home. . . .

Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and
treasure of silver and gold be taken from them and put aside for
safekeeping. The reason for such a measure is that, as said above, they
have no other means of earning a livelihood than usury, and by it they
have stolen and robbed from us all they possess. Such money should now
be used in no other way than the following: Whenever a Jew is sincerely
converted, he should be handed one hundred, two hundred, or three
hundred florins, as personal circumstances may suggest. With this he
could set himself up in some occupation for the support of his poor wife
and children, and the maintenance of the old or feeble. For such evil
gains are cursed if they are not put to use with God's blessing in a g
ood and worthy cause.

Seventh, I commend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or
a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting
them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow, as was imposed on the
children of Adam (Gen 3[:19]}. For it is not fitting that they should
let us accursed Goyim toil in the sweat of our faces while they, the
holy people, idle away their time behind the stove, feasting and
farting, and on top of all, boasting blasphemously of their lordship
over the Christians by means of our sweat. No, one should toss out these
lazy rogues by the seat of their pants.

...

I wish and I ask that our rulers who have Jewish subjects exercise a
sharp mercy toward these wretched people, as suggested above, to see
whether this might not help (though it is doubtful). They must act like
a good physician who, when gangrene has set in, proceeds without mercy
to cut, saw, and burn flesh, veins, bone, and marrow. Such a procedure
must also be followed in this instance. Burn down their synagogues,
forbid all that I enumerated earlier, force them to work, and deal
harshly with them, as Moses did in the wilderness, slaying three
thousand lest the whole people perish. They surely do not know what they
are doing; moreover, as people possessed, they do not wish to know it,
hear it, or learn it. There it would be wrong to be merciful and confirm
them in their conduct. If this does not help we must drive them out like
mad dogs, so that we do not become partakers of their abominable
blasphemy and all their other vices and thus merit God's wrath and be
damned with them. I have done my duty. Now let everyone see to his. I am
exonerated."

...

However, we must avoid confirming them in their wanton lying,
slandering, cursing, and defaming. Nor dare we make ourselves partners
in their devilish ranting and raving by shielding and protecting them,
by giving them food, drink, and shelter, or by other neighborly acts...

...

Accordingly, it must and dare not be considered a trifling matter but a
most serious one to seek counsel against this and to save our souls from
the Jews, that is, from the devil and from eternal death. My advice, as
I said earlier, is:

First, that their synagogues be burned down, and that all who are able
toss sulphur and pitch; it would be good if someone could also throw in
some hellfire...

Second, that all their books-- their prayer books, their Talmudic
writings, also the entire Bible-- be taken from them, not leaving them
one leaf, and that these be preserved for those who may be converted...

Third, that they be forbidden on pain of death to praise God, to give
thanks, to pray, and to teach publicly among us and in our country...

Fourth, that they be forbidden to utter the name of God within our
hearing. For we cannot with a good conscience listen to this or tolerate
it...

...

He who hears this name [God] from a Jew must inform the authorities, or
else throw sow dung at him when he sees him and chase him away.


Can't help but wonder how your hands smell, Emile. And whether you've burnt any syngogues lately. Hey, any other Christians up for burning a synagogue over the Christmas holidays - or throwing some sow dung?

Seriously, if anyone else regards Luther's "On the Jews and Their Lies" a valuable resource which should be read by every Christian, would you please post accordingly and explain why?

Attached is some more material I found on Luther's anti-semitic work:

Unfortunately few popular books on Luther go into detail about Luther's
anti-Jewishness, or even mention that he had a hatred for Jews at all.
This has resulted in a biased outlook towards Martin Luther and
Christianity. This unawareness of Luther's sinister side, while honoring
his "righteousness" leads to a ratcheting promotion of Luther which
supports a "good" public image while also transporting his Jewish
beliefs to those who carry the seeds of anti-Semitism. This will present
an unwanted dilemma for many Christians because Luther represents the
birth of Protestant Christianity as well as the genesis of the special
brand of Jewish hatred that flourished only in Germany.

Although Luther did not invent anti-Jewishness, he promoted it to a
level never before seen in Europe. Luther bore the influence of his
upbringing and from anti-Jewish theologians such as Lyra, Burgensis,
(and John Chrysostom, before them). But Luther's 1543 book, "On the Jews
and their lies" took Jewish hatred to a new level when he proposed to
set fire to their synagogues and schools, to take away their homes,
forbad them to pray or teach, or even to utter God's name. Luther wanted
to "be rid of them" and requested that the government and ministers deal
with the problem. He requested pastors and preachers to follow his
example of issuing warnings against the Jews. He goes so far as to claim
that "We are at fault in not slaying them" for avenging the death of
Jesus Christ. Hitler's Nazi government in the 1930s and 40s fit Luther's
desires to a tee.

So vehemently did Luther speak against the Jews, and the fact that
Luther represented an honorable and admired Christian to Protestants,
that his written words carried the "memetic" seeds of anti-Jewishness up
until the 20th century and into the Third Reich. Luther's Jewish
eliminationist rhetoric virtually matches the beliefs held by Hitler and
much of the German populace in the 1930s.

Luther unconsciously set the stage for the future of German
nationalistic fanaticism. William L. Shirer in his "The Rise and Fall of
the Third Reich," puts it succinctly:

"Through his sermons and his magnificent translations of the Bible,
Luther created the modern German language, aroused in the people not
only a new Protestant vision of Christianity by a fervent German
nationalism and taught them, at least in religion, the supremacy of the
individual conscience. But tragically for them, Luther's siding with the
princes in the peasant rising, which he had largely inspired, and his
passion for political autocracy ensured a mindless and provincial
political absolutism which reduced the vast majority of the German
people to poverty, to a horrible torpor and a demeaning subservience.
Even worse perhaps, it helped to perpetuate and indeed to sharpen the
hopeless divisions not only between classes but also between the various
dynastic and political groupings of the German people. It doomed for
centuries the possibility of the unification of Germany."

In Mein Kampf, Hitler listed Martin Luther as one of the greatest
reformers. And similar to Luther in the 1500s, Hitler spoke against the
Jews. The Nazi plan to create a German Reich Church laid its bases on
the "Spirit of Dr. Martin Luther." The first physical violence against
the Jews came on November 9-10 on Kristallnacht (Crystal Night) where
the Nazis killed Jews, shattered glass windows, and destroyed hundreds
of synagogues, just as Luther had proposed. In Daniel Johah Goldhagen's
book, Hitler's Willing Executioners, he writes:

"One leading Protestant churchman, Bishop Martin Sasse published a
compendium of Martin Luther's antisemitic vitriol shortly after
Kristallnacht's orgy of anti-Jewish violence. In the foreword to the
volume, he applauded the burning of the synagogues and the coincidence
of the day: 'On November 10, 1938, on Luther's birthday, the synagogues
are burning in Germany.' The German people, he urged, ought to heed
these words 'of the greatest antisemite of his time, the warner of his
people against the Jews.'"

No apologist can claim that Martin Luther bore his anti-Jewishness out
of youthful naivete', uneducation, or out of unfounded Christianity. On
the contrary, Luther in his youth expressed a great optimism about
Jewish conversion to Christianity. But in his later years, Luther began
to realize that the Jews would not convert to his wishes. His
anti-Jewishness grew slowly over time. His logic came not from science
or reason, but rather from Scripture and his Faith. His "On the Jews and
Their Lies" shows remarkable study into the Bible and fanatical biblical
reasoning. Luther, at age 60 wrote this dangerous "little" book at the
prime of his maturity, and in full knowledge in support of his beliefs
and Christianity.

His vehement attack on Jews and his powerful
influence on the believers of the Germans has brought a new hypothesis
to mind: that the Holocaust, and indeed, the eliminationist form of
anti-Semitism in Nazi Germany may not have occurred without the
influence from Luther's book "On the Jews and Their Lies."

Julius Streicher (one of Hitler's top henchmen and publisher of the
anti-Semitic Der Sturmer) was asked during the Nuremberg trials if there
were any other publications in Germany which treated the Jewish question
in an anti-Semitic way., Streicher put it well:

"Dr. Martin Luther would very probably sit in my place in the
defendants' dock today, if this book had been taken into consideration
by the Prosecution. In the book 'The Jews and Their Lies,' Dr. Martin
Luther writes that the Jews are a serpent's brood and one should burn
down their synagogues and destroy them..."

Today, white-supremacists and Neo-Nazis continue to spread Luther's
Jewish hatred and use quotes from this book as "proof" of their
convictions. I trust that readers will see the horror and danger of
Luther's book and will realize the potential threat that might come from
belief in its words.



To: Emile Vidrine who wrote (28769)12/24/1999 7:45:00 PM
From: nihil  Respond to of 39621
 
Let me say a few words about Martin Luther. He was a reprobate monk who denied his vows of chastity. He was no man of his word, but wallowed in the fleshly lusts that he had denounced. Of course, I think a healthy man should have sex as frequently as he wishes, but because of my vows I don't. My word is far better than Martin Luther's.
Martin was a trouble maker, stirring up rebellion of the German princes against the Emperor. But when the peasants (the class from which he came) rose in rebellion he demanded that they all be hunted down and killed. Blessed are the peacemakers!
Martin was a German nationalist, and turned against the
catholic church that had taught and promoted him.
Worst of all, he was a vandal. The door of the castle church still bares the nail holes he inflicted on it.