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Pastimes : Jesus -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Jamey who wrote (3483)12/29/1999 1:31:00 AM
From: Berry Picker  Respond to of 4775
 
Concerning the Tithe

This is a long and rambling message Forgive me reader and try to wade through.....

RE>>(If you can find it under the Dispensation of Grace I'll believe it.)<<

You are very right to believe that all Ceremonial Law according to the Order of Aaron is null and void; they being only the shadow of good things to come -The New Covenant in Jesus the Christ.

The Book to the Hebrews is where this is very clearly spelled out and in fact concludes with this shocking conclusion:

Heb 13:10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.

Paul teaches his fellow Hebrews that there is no middle ground as far as the types and shadows and plainly teaches that ceremonial law must change.

Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

It is completely illogical to call a priesthood changed if everything remains the same!

RE>>Paul took up collections for the poor at Jerusalem <<

Notice something about the command to "take up collections"

1 Corinthians 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

First James

1. It is to be done on the first day of the week not just any day. The new Testament Sabbath of the Lord's Day. Ceremonial law is affixed to proper times for corporate worship. Gifts can be given whenever.

2. "as God hath prospered him" is the very language of the Tithe it is a Tenth Part as God has prospered Him or of a man's increase. Just as a tax from Ceasar it is God's Tax for the work of the church. God gets 10% Ceasar gets more?

3. "that there be no gatherings when I come." Paul here is stating that He intends to use the tithe rather than ask for gifts when He comes. It is not comely that Ministers are reduced to begging because the Lord's People have robbed God of His Tithe.

Malachi 3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Notice James the word "storehouse" concerning the Church and the tithe in that verse. It is the very same language used by Paul when he writes "lay by him in store" in the N.T.

Let me back up however because it is to me great concern whenever I hear a man say "Dispensation of Grace" as you have done.

===== All ceremonial law has to do with GRACE. =====

There is not a priesthood anywhere that is not about grace. Aarons Priesthood was also about Jesus and looked forward to it. Even the sacrifice of Abel was a shadow and looking forward to the Blood of the Lamb of God - Jesus

The Covenant of Works and the Covenant of Grace have always been with us since God made provision for Adam in the Garden with the shedding of the Blood of an animal to make for Him a "COVERING" We have seen different priesthoods but the history of the world is not divided into ages of Grace and Not-Grace.
We do indeed enjoy a "Better Covenant" When I think about the incredible burden all those animal sacrifices were when compared to drinking a little wine and eating bread it astounds me. Surely God wanted to highlight how all that blood could not take away sins but only the Blood of Jesus.

Hebrews 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

That blood was a 'Shadow" and a representation of the Blood of the Lamb Jesus and of itself did nothing.

=== All Men both New and Old Testament are saved by Grace through Faith in Jesus ===

I am very happy to be allowed to write to you about this very thing because most of America fails at this very point.

Jesus said concerning "the Law"

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Yet Paul says their is a "change of Law"

Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Let's look at a very basic principle concerning Authority.

If ANY authority puts forth a law, those who are called to obey would be foolish to disregard any command unless they were told by that very authority or an even higher authority that it was changed. This is why many Jewish converts had a very hard time dropping the Old Testament Jewish Sabbaths and Ceremonial Laws.
The book of Hebrews did just that and told men everywhere that the PriestHood of Aaron had been abrogated!

New Testament Christians were free from the Old Testament Holy days and Sabbaths even though God had Commanded them because they are under a different Priesthood.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Many men falsely use this verse to put away the Lord's Day Sabbath. These Sabbaths are of the "Shadows" of the Coming of the Messiah and His Priesthood as according to the order of Aaron. They were commanded by God and also done away with by God in Jesus. If you look in Leviticus you will see these ordinances concerning "Meats, Moons,Holy Days, Ceremonial Sabbaths"( Not the Moral and perpetual Sabbath )
They were those that contained the "Shadows" and were Ceremonial.

Hebrews 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

( Divers washings = Baptisms )

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

The key to understanding how Jesus can say that "the Law" will not be changed until Heaven and Earth are gone not one little jot and Paul saying "the Law" must change immediately is to understand that they are speaking about completely different things .

There is MORAL and PERPETUAL LAW and there is CEREMONIAL LAW which has always Changed until this final NEW COVENANT in the Blood of the Very Son of GOD. This is the Last Day concerning Ceremonial Law.

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

There will be no further Priesthoods after Jesus and this New Covenant:

Psalms 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

How do we find the Apostles viewing the Old Testament. Some men would say that I make a distinction between Ceremonial and Moral that is not taught in the scriptures. Well then Jesus and Paul are contradicting one another. Also how could a Change in Priesthood ever affect a MORAL LAW such as "Thou shalt not kill" Moral Law reflects God's very Personhood and of that we read:

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

The Common Idol of the Day does change... He was a very angry God in the Old Testament but in the New He has managed to control Himself - surely this is to Blaspheme and suggests that God is evil in His Wrath.
God's Wrath is not evil it is Righteous and Good!
It has not been changed and is very clearly taught in the New Testament and more specifically in The Revelation of Jesus Christ given to John.

God is not more forgiving even if more souls be forgiven ( greater in number not quality ) God always intended to Bless all the families of the earth ( Not every family ) and All the Nations in Abraham.

======= God does not Change =======

God was a God of Wrath in the Old Testament He is still a God of Wrath.

God is a God of Love in the New Testament He was a God of Love in the Old Testament.

If God changes surely it would be for the better - therefore - He was worse before the change!

How then is God perfect if men believe He improves?

Silly idols the people serve whom they change to suit their flesh and itchy ears.

If any authority therefore commands men lawfully ( not against God ) men are obligated to obey. Ignorance is no excuse it is our duty to know the law. Also the Law of God.

Men today are not rightly dividing the Word of God:

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Rightly dividing is not to cut the Old Testament away from the New at all.

I wish it was that easy:
O.T. = Old Covenant / N.T. = New Covenant
That is not how it works.

=== The New Covenant is spoken of and taught about throughout All of the Scriptures. ===

When the Apostle Paul convinced men about Jesus at the first he would use the Old Testament for they would not receive the New except they first be saved and agree with the Authority of the Apostles:

Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

That is OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURE.. also Jesus:

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

That is Jesus showing the Disciples that He is what the Old Testament had always been about !

Rightly dividing the Word therefore is understanding even as I already pointed out that some things pertain to the Covenant of Works and those of Grace also even the term Law must be qualified not confusing those things that are past with those that will never pass. Many other parts to be understood as they were intended and not as men would make them say. That is why the scriptures are not open to personal or individual interpretation. They have definite meaning.

A diligent workman must therefore study very carefully how the Spirit filled and ordained apostles "interpret scripture"

Notice this James both to being on topic and exegetically critical:

1 Corinthians 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

Paul sites a "moral" law of God given to Moses. Paul asks Does God care for Ox? The answer is YES! It is only "NO" when compared to how God views man. What Paul is saying is that *IF* God calls it immoral to work an animal and rob it of it's daily bread then SURELY God cares more for those who are made in His image.

Notice FIRST...
Paul is quoting an Old Testament Law as VALID.
NOtice Second...
Paul is not denying that the verse is about Oxen. Paul points out that we as Thinking and Spiritual men can glean Principle from any scripture without being dishonest or misrepresenting God's moral character or Word.

That is a very very IMPORTANT DISTINCTION.
=== Original intent and meaning but universal principle. ===
We can apply verses INTENDED specifically to the apostles generally to all Christians many times and be perfectly well within what God intended us to do with His Word. That is KNOWING GOD However we must never say that scripture means more than what it did in the original intent nor that it may have a double meaning or more. Scripture has definite meaning but much principle as it reveals to us the true Author.

RE>>Old Testament under the old covenant and attempt to fit this into the new. <<

This is where you have made a mistake concerning the Tithe.

It is from the Old Testament but not only from the Old Covenant.

If you study the History of the Tithe you will notice that the first record of anyone paying a tithe was that of "TIME" under the Sabbath Law before the Fall. Since sin did not yet exist in man that Law could not be Ceremonial because there ceremonial law always deal with reconciling Man to God through Grace. There was no Sin when God instituted the 1 day in 7 Sabbath and is a kind of Tithe. You may reject this and that is fine it is by "Principle" and not intent that I speak of the Tithe of Time. It does no harm to my argument if you do not agree at that point.

The First Tithe we see of material possession which is more to the point is with Abraham - The Father of Faith as known by many. What does Paul say concerning Abraham and He to whom Abraham paid Tithes:

Hebrews 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

Now James you know you are sunk with that verse alone for who is the King of Peace to whom the very first tithe was paid? :-}

What does Paul say of this Priest called Melchisedek?

Heb 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

Surely Paul teaches that there was one greater than Abraham!

Who can be greater than the greatest Patriach? Who can it be that hath no Mother or Father nor beginning of days?
How can anyone abide a Priest FOREVER

What does Paul say of the Tithes given under the Order of Aaron?
Heb 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

Those Tithes are done away with in Christ for Christ is not a Priest according to the Order of Aaron in the Levitical PriestHood but is a Priest according to the Order of Melchisedek.

Why can a Christian just plainly disregard the ceremonial law under the Old Covenant.. just because He decided to or is it because we have been commanded by God in the New Testament:

Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Here is the very reason that we do discard the Old or the Levitical Covenant. It served only as a SHADOW of the Priest who was promised to come under the Order of Melchisedec. If we continue in the Levitical Order then we deny that the Messiah has come. However we must serve according to the Order of Melchesidek for that is the Order of the Messiah.

Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

This first verse teaches that ceremonial law is changed and must be !

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

Look at the power of that verse. "An endless life"

17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

Now you can see there is a disannulling of the commandment which went before - Tithes and ordinances under the Order of Aaron. We serve under the Order of Melchisedec and it is clear that even Abraham Tithed under that order.

Look at whom Abraham gave a tithe:

Genesis 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

He is called King of Peace and He brought forth Bread and Wine. He had no beginning of days. He was greater than Abraham:

Hebrew 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

There is your N.T. verse James. Here on earth men receive tithes; but there of Abraham and even Aaron in yet in his loins did Tithe to whom it is witnessed He liveth Forever

Abraham lived by the Grace of Christ and was Blessed by Him under the Order Of Melchisedek.

Hebrews 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Look James Paul says that those two statements teach the same principle.
As he sayeth ALSO in another place.

=== Jesus is that Law Giver Moses spoke of that would come. ===

John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

Even as Jacob foresaw and told his son's concerning Jesus.

Genesis 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

Take care not to divide the Scriptures simply by refusing the Old Testament and receiving the new. Do divide the Ceremonial Laws that were shadows and temporal until the coming of the reality in Christ. Do not cast away the Tithe according to Melchesidek but do cast away the tithe according to Aaron. Do not cast away the Moral law ever. Jesus said He would never change that. The Creational ordinances given to Adam before he ever sinned will never be changed either while this world stands.

We are called to obey the Sabbath as instituted before the fall in Adam and incorporated in the Moral Law given in the Ten Commandments but none of the Sabbaths given under the order of Aaron are to be observed and in fact it is now a sin to do so.

Hebrews 13:10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.

I am starting to repeat myself so I am done.

James I want you to "see" something.
In that God called the things of the Order of Aaron "Shadows" we must not remain in them but at the same time we must not discount them either. They did foreshadow the very reality.

Passover was a shadow of the Lord's Supper and the death of the true Lamb of God - Jesus
Circumcision was a shadow and was replaced by Baptism into the real circumcision of the Flesh the Cutting away of the Body of our Saviour. At this I weep!
It is replace by Baptism and being baptized into the putting off of the flesh!
What then did the Tithe foreshadow..
The continued need of the Church and is returned to the Tithe ordained in Melchesidek! Not a shadow but a very reality! Can we not pray one hour.

We are a Royal Priesthood !

I think it a great shame that men do not tithe. Under the Levitical priesthood the Levites received no inheritance in the division of land. They did receive the tithe of the other 11 tribes. Those tribes lived on 90% of what God granted them year to year ( there were other things but I leave that for now ) Then the Levites also tithed 10% but that would leave them yet with more than any others. The Priests would receive more than congregation ( generally not specifically ) How poor that those who lived only under the shadow should treat the ministers of Christ better than we. What a shame also it is that we, the Church, have allowed the Government to take over our concerns and make themselves the 'saviours' of the poor and afflicted. How can the Church do their work and reclaim what the state has taken if the people will not tithe. I have seen churches where there are far more than "11" families and yet they cannot support the pastor and he is told to get a part time job. Yes Paul was a travelling evangelist and he did support himself so that no one would suspect him of preaching for gain but that was not to be the norm. If Preachers are burdened with labour to eat then they will not be given fully to the work of the Lord. If you have a part time Preacher do not be surprised if you get a half baked sermon!

Concerning those who believe that giving is a matter of conscience under the new and better covenant. Surely if you take a higher ground your free will giving will be more than the lowly 10% we legalists are giving <VBG>

Concerning the Blessing that God has declared concerning the Tithe.

God has called men to TEST HIM !

We are never to test God but in this case God has made an exception being very bold concerning those who say they cannot afford to give 10%. We cannot afford not to.

Mal 3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Prove me now = Test me and see that I am true... God has promised a blessing to those who tithe!

I do not know anyone who has faithfully tithed that has not been blessed. Did Jesus discourage those who were even careful to tithe of mint and mustard seed ( very small things )

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Jesus rebukes them for being so careful concerning the tithe ( likely because they knew the promise of God to bless ) but they forgot the very Love of God.

Did Jesus then say forget about tithing? No quite the opposite He says about the tithe.
" These ye ought to have done but not to leave the other undone "

Jesus provides us our Daily Bread and He will provide enough for us to tithe and as with all things ...

God is my Father and He as a Good Father Provides well for me and my little flock!

===== Jesus makes us pleasing to Himself =====

God grant you every Spiritual and Physical Blessing James:

3 John 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.