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Pastimes : Jesus -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Chris land who wrote (3589)12/30/1999 6:56:00 PM
From: Berry Picker  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 4775
 
Concerning Esau becoming bitter ( in the end )

You are right to say that of the two for most of their lives Jacob the Chosen and Elected One acted in evil against Esau seeking for himself the Blessing - knowing that it was "promised" before he was born.

Proving Jacob became "nice" I give up, I base that on the work of sanctification in the lives of all believers but could not specifically prove him to be "nice".

Jesus was not "nice" so I concede that point.

I do see Jacob returning home to "reconcile" even flattering his evil brother.

=== I see Jacob angry at his sons for deceiving others even as he had in his youth. ===

Seems he learned a few lessons along the way :-}

If you study the relationship of Esau with his father Isaac you can see that he was favoured but it was a "fleshy" favour rather than spiritual for the promise to Elect Jacob was made before they knew she was pregnant with twins.

Genesis 25:28 And Isaac loved Esau, because he did eat of his venison: but Rebekah loved Jacob.

Most bible scholars will admit that Isaac's love for Esau was given to the god of his own belly.

Romans 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Belly = Flesh

How then did Esau grow to be? Serving his belly just like dad.

Genesis 25:30 And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage; for I am faint: therefore was his name called Edom.
31 And Jacob said, Sell me this day thy birthright.
32 And Esau said, Behold, I am at the point to die: and what profit shall this birthright do to me?
33 And Jacob said, Swear to me this day; and he sware unto him: and he sold his birthright unto Jacob.
34 Then Jacob gave Esau bread and pottage of lentiles; and he did eat and drink, and rose up, and went his way: thus Esau despised his birthright.

We who are elected to Christ must value our inheritance in Him more than Life itself. Esau did not value the things of God but Jacob did and was willing to do anything to get it.

Jacob looked for the "Blessing"

Esau had "Sworn" to give Jacob the Blessing of the Eldest Son yet when it came time for Isaac to Bless he would not honor his covenant with Jacob his brother. Jacob, plotted together with his mother to deceive his own father who was loving Esau in his flesh.

Notice Chris the Grace of God forgives and forgets the sins of His sons and when we see Isaac mentioned nothing is said of this sin but rather:

Hebrews 11:20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

Much better and gracious manner to relate what really happened:

Gen 27:4 And make me savoury meat, such as I love, and bring it to me, that I may eat; that my soul may bless thee before I die.

How is it that Isaac is "tying" the blessing [ that was given to Abraham from Christ ( Melchesidek ) and from Abraham to himself and to be passed on until Christ ends what he started in the incarnation ] to a carnal pleasure "such as I love"

God in grace forgives and calls those things that are not as though they are and 'forgets' the sins of the elect never to mention them again. Esau was wicked and served his belly. Even though Isaac served his belly yet he is a forgiven vessel of mercy.

That is a very distinct difference we can see between a book written by a prophet and one by a priest. Hebrews concerns faith and "priesthoods".

The sins are under the blood.

Gen 27:34 And when Esau heard the words of his father, he cried with a great and exceeding bitter cry, and said unto his father, Bless me, even me also, O my father.
35 And he said, Thy brother came with subtilty, and hath taken away thy blessing.

God had promised to Bless Jacob yet Jacob had to resort to subtilty to get it. " All things work together " I do not advocate meeting sin with sin but that was what occurred.
=== The whole family is no example for any of us! ===

Jacob received the Spiritual Blessing - Esau only earthly.

Genesis 27:38 And Esau said unto his father, Hast thou but one blessing, my father? bless me, even me also, O my father. And Esau lifted up his voice, and wept.
39 And Isaac his father answered and said unto him, Behold, thy dwelling shall be the fatness of the earth, and of the dew of heaven from above;
40 And by thy sword shalt thou live, and shalt serve thy brother; and it shall come to pass when thou shalt have the dominion, that thou shalt break his yoke from off thy neck.
41 ô And Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing wherewith his father blessed him: and Esau said in his heart, The days of mourning for my father are at hand; then will I slay my brother Jacob.

RE>>Where do you see that Esau became bitter and hateful? <<

Esau plagued Isaac by marrying heathen wives from the Hittites.

Gen 28:1 And Isaac called Jacob, and blessed him, and charged him, and said unto him, Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan.

Here Isaac blesses Jacob willingly having submitted to God's election and charges Jacob to marry within the faith and not according to carnal attraction.

Gen28:6 ô When Esau saw that Isaac had blessed Jacob, and sent him away to Padanaram, to take him a wife from thence; and that as he blessed him he gave him a charge, saying, Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan;
7 And that Jacob obeyed his father and his mother, and was gone to Padanaram;
8 And Esau seeing that the daughters of Canaan pleased not Isaac his father;
9 Then went Esau unto Ishmael, and took unto the wives which he had Mahalath the daughter of Ishmael Abraham's son, the sister of Nebajoth, to be his wife.


Esau had already two wives from the Hittite tribe and now he weds to punish Isaac. That is pretty bitter.

Gen 36:2 Esau took his wives of the daughters of Canaan; Adah the daughter of Elon the Hittite, and Aholibamah the daughter of Anah the daughter of Zibeon the Hivite;
3 And Bashemath Ishmael's daughter, sister of Nebajoth.
4 And Adah bare to Esau Eliphaz; and Bashemath bare Reuel;
5 And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these are the sons of Esau, which were born unto him in the land of Canaan.
6 And Esau took his wives, and his sons, and his daughters, and all the persons of his house, and his cattle, and all his beasts, and all his substance, which he had got in the land of Canaan; and went into the country from the face of his brother Jacob.
7 For their riches were more than that they might dwell together; and the land wherein they were strangers could not bear them because of their cattle.
8 Thus dwelt Esau in mount Seir: Esau is Edom.

The blessing of Isaac to Esau to prosper in earthly things was honored by God but God alone chooses His elect and Esau raised up the Nation Edom. Edom was a hated nation of God.

The New Testament speaks of Esau as a wicked person even as all men are without God's Intervening Grace.

Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

We are clearly taught that we dare not sin willfuly after we receive the knowledge of the truth lest we end up like evil Esau.

Hebrews 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears

Isaac is recorded as a Father of the Faith ....

Esau is recorded as wicked.

Hebrews 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

Jacob returned and stayed while Esau left for Edom.

Esau knew once his forsaking of the blessing due the "eldest" was given over to Jacob that he should not have valued the things of the flesh more than the things of God but it was too late and Esau hated both Jacob and planned his death and spurned even his old and dying father by purposing to marry wives of the "bond woman"

You are right that Esau forsook trying to kill his brother but only after 14 years had passed ( A significant number in scripture ) Also Jacob himself suffered being deceived in the same way and slept with the "eldest daughter" rather than the one "promised" at the hand of his Father-in-Law.

Notice as well that when Jacob left he wrestled with God and with all his strength though He was not strong enough would not let go and asked again for the "Blessing from Heaven"
When he returned he put his wives and children and animals out front lest his brother still be angry. :-}

Let us follow his example in that. That we with all of our strength seek to keep to God's Promise.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

RE>>Not at all, they are dead to God and can't see what they lost.<<

They will.....God is not slack.

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

P.S. I am not against men having favorites and even Jesus had a "most beloved" disciple. I do not pretend to love all my children the same.

RE>>Isn't he the one who played favorites, choosing Joseph <<
It was God's choosing of Joseph that called his brothers to the brink of murder. It was not Jacob's fault that his other sons reacted in an evil manner to his fervent love for the two sons of his most loved and favored wife.
Ben was more loved even though he was the end of Rachel.

I think people pretend they do not have favorites because they do not see that God has favorites.
They think it more "righteous" to pretend they love everyone the same. I do not follow that kind of thinking.

Concerning the evil of their envy...

Genesis 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

Meant it = God ordains even the sins of men to work for the good of the elect.

Chris have you found favor in God's eyes ? :-}



To: Chris land who wrote (3589)12/31/1999 9:34:00 AM
From: Alan Markoff  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 4775
 
Chris,
Romans 9
11: (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12: It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13: As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Seems to me you are thinking as men think and not as God thinks. God loved Jacob and you love Esau. Can't you see you are thinking the opposite of God the Almighty? We can only read of Jacob what God allows us to and we are tested as to what we see. Do we want to learn what God saw in him or judge it on our own standards. If God loved Jacob and hated Essau then I want to follow what God loves and try to understand so I can learn of Him. Essau it says despised God even though he was kind to Jacob you need to read
Gen. 32
9: And Jacob said, O God of my father Abraham, and God of my father Isaac, the LORD which saidst unto me, Return unto thy country, and to thy kindred, and I will deal well with thee:
10: I am not worthy of the least of all the mercies, and of all the truth, which thou hast shewed unto thy servant; for with my staff I passed over this Jordan; and now I am become two bands.
11: Deliver me, I pray thee, from the hand of my brother, from the hand of Esau: for I fear him, lest he will come and smite me, and the mother with the children.
12: And thou saidst, I will surely do thee good, and make thy seed as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude.
Gen. 35
1: And God said unto Jacob, Arise, go up to Bethel, and dwell there: and make there an altar unto God, that appeared unto thee when thou fleddest from the face of Esau thy brother.

Then when he blessed Joeseph it was the will of God. God chose Joeseph as a prophecy of Jesus so again it was the will of God and Jacobs heart was with God.
Nancy
P.S. So many Christians defend even Luther when we read such terrible things he said and then criticise the people God chose maybe it shows they are leaning on their own understanding.