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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Bill who wrote (69576)	12/31/1999 12:28:00 PM
From: Edwarda	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Bill, speaking as a person of faith, I do believe that these values have a higher source. Speaking as a person engaged in discussion, I cannot demonstrate the existence of such a source except by appeals to "special access."

To: Bill who wrote (69576)	12/31/1999 1:54:00 PM
From: Ilaine	Respond to of 108807

Do you really think that people needed the Ten Commandments so they would know how to behave? Most animal species past the level of reptile have the good sense not to kill their own blood line and their friends and allies, most of the time, including man. If you want to believe that the commandment given to Moses, "Thou Shalt Not Kill," was a revelation to the Jews, and that they were murdering without any limitations until they got that commandment, feel free to do so. There is no support for it in the historial record, however. It seems to me that the Ten Commandments were a compilation of moral precepts that were already considered worthwhile by thinking people throughout the world, long before Moses. Otherwise, why was Cain exiled when he slew Able? Why was a mark put on him so that all would know him? That happened long before Moses went up the mountain. Why were Sodom and Gomorrah destroyed, if there were no moral values that the citizens were violating? Where do these moral values come from? Divine revelation? I believe in natural law, that we as human beings have an innate understanding of justice and righteousness, even if we don't always live by it.

To: Bill who wrote (69576)	12/31/1999 2:37:00 PM
From: George S. Montgomery	Respond to of 108807

Sorry to butt in, but... The question you set up: Is killing 'wrong?' Or, is killing "part of us?' has troubled me over the decades. The older I get, the more I lean towards the latter option. GSM

To: Bill who wrote (69576)	12/31/1999 2:50:00 PM
From: MSB	Respond to of 108807

And conscience is only present where there are values. I wonder if someone might care to explain how conscience is biological, and why it seems to be so predominate (or so I assume since inter species communication doesn't seem to have exhibited itself at this stage of the game) in man. (nice day out, logging off)

To: Bill who wrote (69576)	1/1/2000 11:31:00 AM
From: nihil	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Most animal species kill without conscience. I would say all of them do, except that animal species don't do anything. A "species" is a human abstract idea, as is "conscience." Animals are individuals. I have shined a laser on the wall and had one gecko follow it, and another run away. My labrador attacked the explosions outside my house lastnight, my border collie sat and securely enjoyed the flashes and explosions. My German shorthaired pointed shivered uncontrollably in fear. I have seen my GSP Graf (1) discover a baby rabbit in the grass, and lie down and investigate it curiously, until I called him away; (2) attack a new-born calf, until a furious cow drove him (and me) deep into the creek; (3) attack and kill a tiny weasel which reared up on its hind legs and fiercely defended itself. This was one of the most aggressive and dominant dogs I have ever seen, but was a loving family pet on whom my 2 year old son would sleep, secure under Graf's protection. Any time my 8 year old son would hike around the farm, Graf would accompany him and protect him from the cattle (two bulls) and the wicked cow with the crumpled horn. I trusted my family to him. I would have trusted him with my life.