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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Michael M who wrote (69651)	1/1/2000 2:32:00 PM
From: Grainne	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Michael, my understanding of Thomas Jefferson's religious beliefs is that he was a Deist, as were several of our Founding Fathers. Deists generally believe in some creative force in the universe, although there is a question among Deists as to whether that force still even exists. This is utterly unlike Christianity. You could certainly argue that pagans believe in a creative force, as well. As for Thomas Jefferson's quotes on religion, here are a few of them: "Question with boldness even the existence of God; because if there be one, He must approve the homage of Reason rather than that of blindfolded Fear." -- Thomas Jefferson in a letter to Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787, _2000_Years_of_Disbelief_ by James A. Haught "Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and imposters led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus." --Thomas Jefferson, _Six_Historic_Americans_ by John E. Remsberg "I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition [Christianity] one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded on fables and mythology."--Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, _Six_Historic_Americans_ by John E. Remsberg "Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned, yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity [of opinion]. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites."--Thomas Jefferson, _Notes_on_the_State_of_Virginia_(1781-85), _Oxford_Dictionary_of_Quotations_ "The proscribing any citizen as unworthy the public confidence by laying upon him an incapacity of being called to offices of trust and emolument unless he profess or renounce this or that religious opinion is depriving him injuriously of those priviledges and advantages to which, in common with his fellow citizens, he has a natual right."--Thomas Jefferson, _Statute_for_Religious_Freedom_, 1779, _The_Papers_of_Thomas_Jefferson_, edited by Julron P. Boyd, 1950, 2:546 "The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ." -- Thomas Jefferson "I contemplate with soveriegn reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof', thus building a wall of separation between church and State."--Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT. _The_Complete_ Jefferson_ by Saul K. Padover, pp 518-519 "History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."--Thomas Jefferson to Baron von Humboldt in 1813, _The_Writings_of_Thomas_Jefferson_Memorial_Edition_, edited by Lipscomb and Bergh, 14:21 "All persons shall have full and free liberty of religious opinion; nor shall any be compelled to frequent or maintain any religious institution."--Thomas Jefferson, 1776

To: Michael M who wrote (69651)	1/1/2000 5:43:00 PM
From: Krowbar	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator....." Jefferson recognized that he would have to use language King George III of England would understand. In England religion and government were intertwined, something that he wanted to prevent from happening here. No reference to any god is to be found in the body or in the amendments to the Constitution. Convinced that religious liberty must, most assuredly, be built into the structural frame of the new [state] government, Jefferson proposed this language [for the new Virginia constitution]: "All persons shall have full and free liberty of religious opinion; nor shall any be compelled to frequent or maintain any religious institution": freedom for religion, but also freedom from religion. (Edwin S.Gaustad, Faith of Our Fathers: Religion and the New Nation, San Francisco: Harper & Row, 1987, p. 38. Jefferson proposed his language in 1776.) How many times have you heard the wrong wing say "Freedom from religion does not mean freedom from religion" It appears that freedom from religion was exactly what Jefferson meant. Nothing but parrots repeating another error. Del