CKahn, From the Sudan....
News Article by KTV on January 07, 2000 at 12:11:12:
Interview of Sudan's John Garang by Kenyan TV
Source: KTN TV, Nairobi, in English 1600 gmt 06 Jan 00
Kenya Tv interveiwed Sudan People's Liberation Movement leader John Garang on
the ongoing fighting in Sudan and his views on the recent decress by
President Bashir. Following are rxcerpts from the interview by Kenyan KTN TV
on 6th January.
[Announcer Christine Nguku] In the studio tonight we have chairman Dr John
Garang of the Sudan People's Liberation Movement who has been fighting for
almost 20 years against the leadership in the north. But first let us take a
look at the current situation in Sudan ...
[Nguku] Welcome to the studio Dr Garang
[Garang] Thank you.
[Q] Why are you fighting for so many years?
[A] Well it is really no doubt that we are fighting. It is - we are being
fought. We have been fought by the various regimes that have come and gone in
Khartoum since 1955. So its not 20 years. It has been since 1956, that is 40,
44 years now. Basically the Sudan has been misdefined as an Islamic Arab
state. It is true that we have Arabs in the Sudan . It is true that the
majority of the Sudanese people are Muslim. But since 1956 at independence
all the regimes in Khartoum have sought to impose Islamism, to impose Arabism
on the Sudanese people, and that has been resisted. So the first resistance
was in 1955. I was only 10 years old then so I did not start this war. That
is why I say we are being fought. It lasted 17 years and agreement was
reached in 1972 in which the south was granted local autonomous rule. This
was violated in 1983. [Ja'far Muhammad] Numayri the then president proudly
said Addis Ababa agreement is neither the Koran nor the Bible and it winded
up. And so this war started again. Sudan is multiethnic multi-religious
multi-cultural community. We have more than 500 ethnic groups in the Sudan,
speaking more than 130 distinct and major languages. We have various
religions in the country. Yet all the governments that have come and gone in
Khartoum have emphasized only two parameters for the government of the Sudan
- Arabism and Islamism. That is the basic problem that has caused two wars.
We fight in order to establish justice, equality for all. For all
nationalities in the country. For all religious groups in the country. So it
is the insistence of those in Khartoum to have their own vision of the
country that has caused these wars.
[Q] Cannot there be democratic exercises where the people choose who they
want to lead them, and in that case probably put a kind of administration
that does not advocate for Arabism?
[A] Indeed there can be, there can be a democratic state, and that is the
purpose for which we fight. But the government in Khartoum as we speak now
has established an Islamic state. It is a theocratic state. And a theocracy
by definition is undemocratic because it is based on a specific religion. We
are not against religion. We are for religious freedom, for all religions.
Christianity, Islam, traditional African religions. We are for that. That is
the form of governance that we seek to establish in our country.
[Q] So does not your movement ever suffer from war fatigue? These have been
very many years, 40-plus years of fighting.
[A] Definitely our people have suffered a great deal. Not only now even
before independence. I would say that there has been suffering. That you
cannot be fatigued fighting for justice because the other side of the coin is
fatigue fighting for justice. Yes there is war fatigue, in terms of suffering
of the people. And they have suffered a great deal with many of our people
have been displaced internally, as internally displaced persons. They have
been displaced externally as refugees. There is immense suffering. What is
the price of freedom? That is for any society to answer. Societies have
fought for values they feel strongly about historically.
[Q] Is your movement interested in a peaceful resolution to this endless war?
[A] Definitely, we are interested in a peaceful resolution of the conflict.
That is why we are in the IGAD [Intergovernmental Authority of Development]
peace process. We were before in Abuja. We had Abuja I and Abuja II. We have
had now eight different sessions of the IGAD peace process which is brokered
by Kenya, Uganda, Ethiopia, and Eritrea, with President [Daniel arap] Moi as
the chairman of the IGAD peace process. That shows our desire, our wish to
reach a peaceful settlement with the government in Khartoum.
[Q] What are your demands right now in the peace process with the Khartoum
administration?
[A] After eight sessions with IGAD the situation is very clear. The DOPs
[declaration of principles] must be implemented. The declaration of
principles of IGAD. On the issue of the relationship between religion and
state, it is clear that we cannot agree on this issue. They are not going to
abandon shari'ah, and we are not going to accept to be governed by shari'ah.
So we are saying that let us count this as a point of agreement, that we have
agreed to disagree. And we will base a political agreement on this agreement
on disagreement. And hence we have a specific suggestion that in the interim
period we have a confederate arrangement, a confederation, whereby the north
will have a separate constitution, the south a separate constitution. In the
north we can have as much shari'ah as they choose. In the south we will have
a secular, democratic constitution. Having affirmed that let us now discuss
how we govern ourselves during an interim period. At the end of the interim
period, the people of the southern Sudan and other areas, Nuba mountains and
Funj areas of southern Blue Nile will exercise the right of self
determination to chose between whether to continue this form of union,
confederate union, or to go for outright independence.
[Q] Then what would happen to those people who are your supporters, and who
subscribe to your demands and your policies, who live in the north ? Are they
going to have to move down south so they can be under the constitution of the
south?
[A] Would have an interim period of say two to four and during this period
there will be free movement of people goods and services, because it is a
confederation, it one country. And we will sought out whatever difficulties
like they the one you raised. This will be sorted out during the interim
period. That is the purpose of the interim period.
[Q] You are controlling a good part of Southern Sudan. Now let us talk
about the people of southern Sudan . Most of the pictures and images we see
and read in newspapers and magazines are pictures that cause people to have
tears in their eyes. There are people who are starving. There are people who
have no income. There are people who are literally suffering all because of
the war. Children who are born in the war and will die in the war. Do you
not have feelings for these people? What do you feel every time you go home
to southern Sudan , and you see all these hungry people?
[A] I'm definitely one of them. I was born in the war myself. As I said
before the first war started when I was a boy of 10. And so I and my children
were born into the Sudanese crisis, into the war. And it is heart breaking as
you said it causes tears, and these off course are my people and I suffer
with them. We have the same fate. We do the best we can to ameriolate the
suffering of our people, by appealing to the international community, like
last year for example there was immense suffering in Bahr al-Ghazal, where
there was a severe famine as a result of the war and of natural factors
combining and bringing about a very horrific situation in Bahr al-Ghazal as
well as southern areas. It is immense suffering and we are concerned. We are
managing the situation the best way we can, and we appeal to the
international community to assist us in this hour of need.
[Q] Now when the Khartoum government looks down at those people and the
suffering they are going through, they probably wish they would wish that
they would have access to these people to provide for them to provide food,
to provide health but because they are behind a front line they cannot, the
government cannot get in there and this marginalizes those populations from
services that the government owes to them.
[A] The government does not even - let us take people who are displaced
behind (?their) own lines. It not only SPLA lines, the population around
Khartoum. We have more than 1.5 million displaced southern Sudanese around
Khartoum. And the suffering there is immense. Worse than what you have in the
areas that are controlled by the SPLA. The government has gone on record
before that it does not want the people of southern Sudan , the Nuba
Mountains and other marginalized peoples of the Sudan , it wants the land. So
it wants the land without the people and the suffering that there is, they
would even wish that it increases so that it solves that problem. The problem
of wanting the land without the people.
[Q] Dr Garang there have been accusations that you are being manipulated by
external powers to keep the war going. And that is why there cannot be any
peaceful resolution in this war.
[A] There cannot be resolutions in the war because Khartoum insists on its
vision of the Sudan - an Islamic state, an Arab state. Now we do not need
foreigners to propel us into the war. It being caused by Khartoum. When
Bashir goes on radio and he says all primary schools from now on are Koranic
schools is that foreign intervention? It is intervention by the that are
responsible for the war. We are not being manipulated by foreign powers
whatsoever. As I said this war started in 1955, it continued for 17 years
[words indistinct] 1983, it has lasted up to now. At any particular time
during this period, this period there are internal, regional and international.
[Q] Finally and very quickly what would be your reactions to the recent
decree that was given by President [Umar al-] Bashir [transmission
interruption] little war with Speaker [Hasan al-] Turabi
[A] It is an indication of a crisis within NIF [National Islamic Front]
party, NIF regime. We wish them more . We want
this split to continue and it will continue because it is a clash of
personalities between Bashir and Turabi. What I must categorically underline
is that there has been no change of policy in Khartoum. It is the same
people. It is the same Turabi. He is still there. It is the same Bashir. He
is still there. But now they are going around the region and around the world
that the hyena has changed its spots. It remains the hyena and it smells the
same. It is the same people. There is no change in Khartoum. If anything, if
there is any change it is for the worse. There is actually a hardening of
fundamentalism, Islamic fundamentalism. The group that is around Bashir are
hardliners. They include those who attempted the assassination of President
[Husni] Mubarak. They include people who torture people in (?goats) houses in
Khartoum. These are present supporters of Bashir and so when Bashir announced
that now the primary schools have become Koranic I was not surprised because
there is actually a hardening of Islamism in Khartoum. It is not for the
better. It is for the worse. However, they will try to project to the
international community that they are changing. That they have gotten rid of
the bad boy of Khartoum who is presumed to be Turabi. But there is no
difference between Turabi and Bashir. It is the same lot. It is the NIF
regime.
[Nguku]Thank you very much. We have been speaking to Dr John Garang, the
chairman of the Sudan People's Liberation Movement and the commander in chief
of the Sudan People's Liberation Army. |
