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Non-Tech : Dorsey Wright & Associates. Point and Figure -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Jorj X Mckie who wrote (5291)	1/23/2000 4:29:00 AM
From: Atin	Respond to of 9427

I think what both Patrick and I are trying to get at is that the frequency of sampling the data has an affect on the kinds of charts one sees. And this frequency is used to factor out noise. And like you said, one person's noise may be another person's relevant data. DWA uses a daily update frequency to factor out intraday data because that is irrelevant for their purposes. This doesn't mean that time is not a factor. I guess both Patrick and I were taking issue with the statement that "time is not a factor". Volume isn't a factor, but time sure is. The difference is that we don't even look at volume, it is not part of the algorithm for calculating/updating the chart. But time plays a very relevant role in the DWA charts. Think about it, if you were to look at two identical charts (including prices), both for companies doing well fundamentally (honest, sometimes I look at that!), both on a gorgeous small pull back on an eminent bullish catapult breakout, but one pattern was of about 3-6 months duration and the other pattern was 15 years, which would you go with? Extreme example, but it will definitely separate the long term players from the short term players ;-) -Atin

To: Jorj X Mckie who wrote (5291)	1/23/2000 9:30:00 AM
From: arno	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 9427

Patrick, I just finished the last few days dialog on the time issue. I have two points: (1)Tom Dorsey stated: #reply-12646861 a day is a time interval but the chart is not necessarily updated on a day, week, month or even a year in some cases. It is the ability of the underlying stock to vary in price that causes the chart to be updated and this movement is not tied to any time frame. Of course, changing the sampling rate or box size will further enhance this stocks ability to vary in a chartable price. Nobody is arguing that. The keyword here folks is updated! Can we repeat that? U-P-D-A-T-E-D You can have a one minute sampling rate with a .125 box and still not make any chart "prints" if there is no movement in the underlying stock price. Or, to take it to an nth degree, as some are wont to do. Let's have a 2 second sampling rate with box size of .0078125 (that's 1/128). No price movement, no chart updates. However, if time was a part of the PnF charts computation, there would "have" to be a "mark" of some sort whether the price moved or not. (2) The other point is you said Tom Dorsey showed scorn for daytraders. I beg to differ. I have never had any inkling at all that the word or the "concept" is in Mr. Dorsey's vocabulary or demeanor. I CAN NOT nor WILL NOT let it go on this thread without calling you on it. I believe you wear your feelings on your sleeve Mr. Slevin, and for you to make antagonistic remarks while under the stated premise of not doing so is laughable. Hey, how do you think I feel? I am one of those jackasses that try to catch a dime in front of a bulldozer. You said it, he didn't. #reply-12648113 Sincerely, arno Sorry thread for continuing this debate, but I showed up late to the party and had 2 cents to spend. I don't speak for anybody other than myself and this is my very humble opinion.

To: Jorj X Mckie who wrote (5291)	1/23/2000 10:11:00 AM
From: Patrick Slevin	Respond to of 9427

Yeah, I'm just scanning a book by A.W. Cohen and another by Earl Blumenthal to see what I can gather about time. These are pretty old books. Seems the concept is that you should read the newspaper and plot charts based on the prices in the Wall Street Journal. You should see one of these charts, the Martin Company. A hand written Point and Figure Chart from 1950 to 1958. I've seen stocks that moved more intraday than this thing moved in 8 years. Which is the point. This methodology is from a time when the only way you knew what was happening was to read the paper. If these people had computers that gave you intraday moves they might have been prone to read it intraday as well. All we are trying to do is take that step. The patterns don't change, a Bullish Catapult is the same whether it's viewed intraday or daily. It seems like a logical extension, and in the arena of today where wide swings are common it might be relevant. At least to some of us, just as you say.