You are quite right about God being eternal...
He loves the elect even when they are yet His enemies...
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Jesus died for the SHEEP...because He loved them from all eternity before He created them.
Jesus did not die for the Goats... nor does Jesus seek to change Goats INTO Sheep..
No Jesus came to FIND THE SHEEP ( the elect )
Romans 9 states that God hated Esau before he was ever born and that it had nothing to do with anything Good or Evil that He did....
God not only hated Esau as an individual but also dealt without mercy to his entire offspring even the nation he became.
Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Are we the elect better than they.. no in no wise for we too hated God...
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Again :
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
Jesus did not die for everyone but plainly stated that He laid down His life for the Sheep only and indeed made it very clear that He was not praying for the wicked..
John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
I pray for them ... The "Elect of God" whom the Father gave to Christ before the world began...
RE>>Is God saying he hates Esau or hated Esau? Interesting distiction isn't it. <<
You are trying to use a "verb tense" arguement??
Man your desperate against the simple truth that God hated ( decided to hate Esau ) before he was born.. future tense.
Destroy all of his heritage on earth ( active hate past tense )
Sent Esau to hell though He tried to repent...
Hebrews 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
Jesus said "Seek and YE shall find "
What happened to Esau... he sought carefully with tears ...
Yet he could not find as it was ordained that He not find God's favour while Jacob ( who went to heaven ) though he was a terrible sinner even deceiving his own father was elect and was forgiven in Christ and Blessed by God.
Found no place of Repentance...
Many are called but few are chosen ( elect )
Esau was ordained unto eternal death in hell while Jacob was ordained and predestined to eternal life...
They were both SINNERS.. but God granted grace to only one.
They grew up in the same envirorment...
They were twins from the same parents ( genetics )
They were both sinners but Jacob was likely worse...
Jacob was loved while Esau was hated...
Jacob was loved and is loved. Being renamed "Israel"
Esau was hated and is hated and is in hell for his sins never being granted the GIFT of eternal life.
That is why Paul used them as examples.
What do you think Paul was teaching in that chapter ???
I'll tell you...
Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Paul is teaching about ELECTION
God choses who shall be saved it is decided bu the will of sinful men who "accept jesus as their personal saviour"
That is ANOTHER GOSPEL and not the truth about how men are saved at all...
Psalms 65:4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.If you went through some dumb "alter call" ritual where you "accepted jesus" it is meaningless...
The question is Did God chose you unto eternal life?
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Men do not "Make a decision for Christ" as a means of Salvation..
That is the common and false Gospel and Will-worship and Humanism!
The Bible teaches that the Father has called and will draw all the Elect unto Christ and save them...
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Do you know how many of God's Sheep will be lost???
======= NONE - NOT ONE =======
Jesus is the Good Shepherd...
John 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Jesus speaks of HAVING other sheep that are not yet Brought ( Called , saved, sanctified )
John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
The Sheep ( the elect ) MUST HEAR HIS VOICE ... they cannot not hear...
John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Do you SEE what Jesus said to those who are not elected unto eternal life...
He said THEY CANNOT BELIEVE BECAUSE they are not sheep ( elected )
No where does the BIble ever teach that they are NOT SHEEP BECAUSE they do not believe...
Yet that is the "stuff" you will be taught bu all those false teachers in 99.9% of the churches every Lord's Day.
They have sent themselves to preach... God did not send them.
If they were sent of God then they would teach what I teach because I teach what Jesus taught... simple.
RE>>I apologize if I offended you!<<
I am not offended... but the truth may offend you.. at least at first.
God does not want to save everyone at all... OR HE WOULD!!!
Can God "rain" manna from heaven even today???
If then God could rain manna on the starving peoples of this world is it reasonable to say that He does not intend for anyone to starve?
Can Jesus heal the sick even today???
Is it then reasonable to say that God wants none to be sick when He can heal them all at His Word?
Can Jesus save even the worst of sinners if HE wants to??
If our so-called fallen "free" will is keeping us from God and casting us into eternal hell then why would God grant anyone such a "gift"
That stuff is all from satan and is not of God...
God saved Jacob by sending an Angel to wrestle with him all night and in the end of the fight put out his hip with just a touch.... Who would not believe?
Paul was struck blind on the road to Demascus by the very appearance of Jesus in His glorified state.... Who would not believe?The disciples could not figure out what was with Jesus.. if he "wanted" converts then why did He not show a little more Charisma and stop talking in riddles to those people...surely if Jesus would "explain things" a little more clearly in a reasonable fashion then men would follow Him...
Matthew 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Read Romans 9 again and ask yourself just when did God ever offer Salvation to Pharoah?
You still do not believe that God only love the Elect and only is enabled to Love them because of the Work of Christ on the Cross!
Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
RE>>God hates sin, but he does not hate sinners. <<
You have heard it said " God hates the sin but loves the sinner "
Psalms 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
The Bible say that GOD HATES the WORKERS of sin.
Workers = the ones doing it...
No - God hates the wicked but loves His Elect Children because of the Work of Christ at Calvary.
Hang around a while and I will show you the true Gospel.
You will need the ears to hear however which is a "Spiritual Gift" granted only to the FEW.
Matthew 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
Steve - What is Saving Faith and where does it come from? |
