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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: IN_GOD_I_TRUST who wrote (29432)	1/27/2000 8:10:00 PM
From: Robert E. Hall	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

Greetings Steve, Nice to see you posting again. << 1. He chose us, before we chose, 2. but based upon our decision!>> Yes, I certainly agree that God makes the choice with respect to, who He will save and who He will not. Romans 8 & 9 explain this truth. He indeed chose us and out of that choosing, He makes us alive in Christ, and then we respond. or choose Him. Your point # 2 is I believe very unscriptural and is tainted with humanism. Ephesians 2:5 " having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will ". Steve, it was God Himself who chose us , based on Himself alone, nothing we did or would ever do, we had nothing to do with our Salvation, it was totally from God , by His sovereign choosing. << PS - I believe in both predestination and free will to choose at the same time! >> Please think about that Steve, thats impossible. Predestination is a Sovereign act of the Creator that will absolutely come to pass. Free will is a choice the creature makes. They certainly are not on the same level. God Bless, Take care, Robert

To: IN_GOD_I_TRUST who wrote (29432)	1/28/2000 4:19:00 AM
From: Berry Picker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

RE>>1. He chose us, before we chose, 2. but based upon our decision!<< What scripture ever teaches that? If Salvation is Based on something we do then what We do deserves Salvation That is Salvation by Works and not Free Grace... You will either end up believing the Bible about FREE GRACE or fall into humanism and Free will ... You cannot have both.. God does not choose us because we choose him. 1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us. John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. If you are not chosen and elected by God then your choosing Him is a waste of time. Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. When Jesus says " I NEVER EVER KNEW YOU " does that mean Jesus did not realize they existed???? No it means He never KNEW them as in LOVE... Like when someone says to you "As far as I'm concerned I do not know you anymore" Or as in Adam KNEW Eve it is intimate loving relationship.... Jesus says to them 'I never loved you' though they 'accepted Jesus as their personal saviour and were casting out demons and doing miracles... Yet they go to HELL. You have told ME to be very Careful.... I tell you ... You need to be very careful.. what I teach is true but FEW CAN HEAR IT !!! 1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee. None who deny Christ shall be saved... some who profess Him will but not many. Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. Jesus just said once again that NOT ALL who "SEEK shall FIND" Seek and ye shall find is a promise to the Elect and none others. That is who Jesus was speaking to in His famous sermon... if Jesus spoke to all men then Jesus lied.