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Non-Tech : Knight/Trimark Group, Inc. -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Sir Francis Drake who wrote (7070)1/28/2000 2:36:00 PM
From: GS_Wall Street  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 10027
 
With the market volatility of NITE How can you classify it as 'dead money' in the short term. This bounce can easily reach $40 thats a 30% gain short term. Not bad for dead money. IMO of course.



To: Sir Francis Drake who wrote (7070)1/28/2000 9:23:00 PM
From: Alohal  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 10027
 
Aloha Morgan! We had a discussion some months ago concerning the way Amazon promoted their stock value with PR & hype to leverage acquisitions. We disagreed as to the advisability of that strategy. I think we are beginning to get a glimpse of the consequences of Amazon's strategy as the stock and perhaps the company are beginning to unravel. Amazon laying off employees and taking about obtaining another 1B in new debt financing. Given how Amazon had pyramided their hyped stock, I believe we will witness a very bad ending for Amazon shareholders.

I still feel that NITE management is pursuing the correct strategy of simply crushing the numbers Q after Q. Eventually the shareholders will be rewarded.

As I said in our earlier exchange, I believe a company's management has an obligation to the companies investors (read long term shareholders) but virtually no obligation to short-term and day traders.

Make no mistake, I appreciate your posts very much, they are informative, provocative, well written and well thought out, for which I thank you. We will, I'm sure, continue to agree to disagree on thjis particular point. But I do believe we are in agreement that NITE is a wonderful long term investment. Have a nice week-end.

Cheers
Alohal



To: Sir Francis Drake who wrote (7070)2/7/2000 8:39:00 PM
From: Sir Francis Drake  Read Replies (4) | Respond to of 10027
 
Just a quick note - it's official: KP kills the stock:

<<By Emily Church, CBS MarketWatch
Last Update: 6:17 PM ET Feb 7, 2000 Silicon Stocks

NEW YORK (CBS.MW) -- Executives at the Robertson Stephens Internet Finance Conference in New York on Monday had several ideas why online brokerage stocks have been underperformers so far this year. The most prominent fear the executives think investors have is whether or not growth in the industry is being undermined by the entry of such big players as Merrill Lynch (MER: news, msgs) and American Express (AXP: news, msgs).

Investors "are confused as to how well positioned" the e-brokers are, said Ken Pasternak, CEO of Knight-Trimark. He believes that investors in his own stock are transitioning from momentum investors to value investors, a trend he terms "good." An indication of the shift can be found in the fact that there is less volume in his stock.>>

VALUE????????????????? OK, the low p/e is here to stay. Welcome to Hades. He who comes in here, must forever abandon hope and earthly dreams.

This is it, ladies and gentlemen. I don't care what earnings are going to be like, and how fabulous the European and Japanese vistas. If the earnings are valued at a low multiple, the price will stay low - period.

KP thinks its "good" that this is now a stock for "value" investors. Cool. It will now be valued as a "value" stock, i.e. not a growth stock, or momentum stock. Low p/e - that is value. High p/e - such as NOK, or INTC, or ORCL, or AMTD, or SCH, that is not value. So happens that high p/e stocks, always expensive, tend to get more expensive. An explicitly "value" stock, is not by definition "expensive".

KP doesn't want momentum players. I suspected this all along. That is why he killed NITE's momentum back in April of 99. That is why he never did a thing to stoke momentum, but rather the opposite - poured cold water. He just doesn't get it. It is momentum players that ignite a stock, and allow it to cruise at high altitude, where institutions-johnny-come-latelys step in and take it higher. Expensive stocks like NOK, have always been "expensive" - but they justify it by their prospects, and they only get more "expensive". There is no reason to explicitly want a low valuation by the market. All it can do, is handicap you in your BUSINESS when you need to leverage your capital.

I guess since KP looks at NITE as a "value" stock, he also needs to have "growth" stocks in his portfolio. Ooops, he's already been "diversifying" for that. I get it! Well, it's good advice.

Now NITE will crawl along painfully, as it gains small amounts of share appreciation on huge earnigs. And will plunge badly, when business slows down. It is a low-p/e stock, see... a value stock. A great future - for the 'conservative' investor - the kind that extracts 8% at best, while the market zooms up by 35%.

It may seem a small statement by KP - but to me, it speaks volumes about KP's attitude, likely future actions and prospects for this stock. A word to the wise.

Yes, I know, the usual attacks will commence, so I leave you in peace. I just figured that those who can glean a lot from just a little, would appreciate a heads up.

I apologize for this intrusion, and wish all NITE shareholders the best of luck!

Morgan



To: Sir Francis Drake who wrote (7070)2/14/2000 9:10:00 PM
From: Sir Francis Drake  Read Replies (4) | Respond to of 10027
 
Helooooo! Anybody here??? Hellllooooooo!

Just because I leave, doesn't mean everybody else has to as well.

On Jan 28, I wrote post #7070, wherein I wrote:

<<I emphasize *long term*. Many who have a much shorter time horizon will consider it best to sell rather than risk a "dead-money" effect. Remember, for them, it is not a question of a few points off the bottom - they are looking for a rocket. There are other stocks out there. However, if you are very patient, you will be well rewarded.>>

Well, on that day, Jan 28, the stock closed at 32 3/16. Today, it sits at 31 1/2. As I said at the time - for short termers it is not a question of a few points off the bottom, but rather the fear of "dead money". I came in for some skepticism, but here we are - and after bouncing up those mentioned few points, NITE is back below 32 - pretty dead money for the *non-trader*.

And don't let anyone tell you it is all because of the sector. Several OLBs were up Friday, some sharply (DIR up by 9%). Today, again several were up. One thing remains consistent though - NITE is down. That's out of the last 7 trading sessions, NITE is down 6 times. Markets positive or negative.

KP talks about NITE transitioning from momentum to value invetors. He mentioned dropping volume. He said it was all good.

I've been trading for years. Have you guys heard this old saying - volume precedes price? Low volume - low price. Yes, the volume sure has been low.

Now, let us think for a second. NITE is at a p/e of 22 or so. According to KP, it is transitioning into a value stock. Let us think - what kind of stocks does a VALUE investor buy? Does he buy expensive stocks, or cheap ones? The value investors I know, are skinflints. They like to buy CHEAP. Low p/e. I guess that is why the volume is dropping - momentum players are gone, and the value investors will not buy until it is cheap. I guess that is what KP meant by "the stock is transitioning".

A financial stock - and this is how NITE is now perceived, thanks to KP - usually has a p/e of anywhere between 7-25. Sure, there financial/brokerage stocks like DIR at 144, etc., but those are not "value", and that's not "good" according to KP. No, KP is positioning NITE as a value play.

Now, if a fin. stock p/e is between 7-25, then if we go toward the lower end, like 10-15, that would be "value", while 25, or 22, is a little dear. When NITE is at 22, KP tells us that the stock is transitioning to "value". I guess that means it is not going UP the ladder from 22 to 25, 28 etc., but DOWN the ladder, closer to 10-15.

In time, with copious earnings, tons and tons of it, NITE will gradually go up in shareprice and still be able to maintain a nice "value" p/e of 10-15 that so pleases KP. So, long term, loooooooong term NITE holders should do really well, long term.

Might it happen that NITE sharply rockets upwards like last year? Not if KP can help it! That would be the bad "momentum" players again. Can't have that. Still, can it happen? If it does, it will be against KP's wishes, because momentum investors are not "good". So, KP will probably try to keep a lid on such horrible events - expect more of the silent PR treatment (PR at NITE is a contradiction in terms), more cold-water remarks from KP, maybe a few patented shareholder-unfriendly moves like NITE pulled off last year.

But worry not - meanwhile the business is just getting better and better and better. Whoa, you should be sooo grateful! Now, don't expect to see any reward in your shareprice - or more precisely, yes, go ahead and expect it, but the "value" kind, the kind that keeps the p/e firmly under control. After whopping good quarters, you'll gain 1/64 (or maybe after decimilization, an extra penny for your patience - there, and be grateful).

Yes, I screamed last summer about the tragedy that was unfolding, I kept warning that NITE might get stuck with a low p/e. I guess it all makes sense now. KP wants to position NITE as a "value" stock, and that BY DEFINITION does not include a high p/e.

Well, at least he gets to diversify - into stocks that are maybe less "value", but are an actual asset in a portfolio instead of a vampire.

In any case, LONG term investors will do well (how long have we played this tune now?), so those who are patient will be rewarded - at the very least, spiritually. For isn't it a good lesson to learn, that money isn't everything? NITE should be a good teacher.

Anyhow, I posted here because it seems the board has died. It is a kind of "mouth to mouth" resuscitation. Now in response, there can follow the usual denunciations, hollering and insults. My job done - I leave again.

Morgan

PS At the next shareholders meeting, maybe NITE shareholders can get to make some money - they should ask Kenny which stocks he is "diversifying" into. After all, the guy has such good sense of opportunity - look at his last to sells at $44 and $45!