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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: greenspirit who wrote (12840)	2/28/2000 2:54:00 AM
From: chalu2	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769670

>>I do find it disconcerting (if true) that a Synagogue would treat women as second class citizens and force them to sit outside, while only the men may enjoy Al Gore's speech.<< This is a very complex topic, but Orthodox Judaism has a rule that men and women not mix in a holy place such as a synagogue; the explanation I have heard is that men should not be tempted into prurient thoughts in the presence af God, and that separation of the sexes discourages this. I'm not sure that Orthodox Jewish teachings on this issue amount to treatment of women as second class citizens. It is my impression that Orthodox Jewish women in the main fervently agree with these teachings, and would never even think to enter a synagogue filled with men waiting to hear Gore. In other words, within the faith, the two sexes agree that this is the way things should be. The women, as practicing Orthodox Jews, would not feel "forced" (your phrase) to stay outside--indeed, they would be horrified if someone tried to usher them inside, as intermingling with men is, in their view, a sin. The distinction to be made here is between the inter-faith animosity of the Bob Jonesers (Catholic Church is a satanic cult, etc.), and intrafaith practices that should be of no concern to anyone outside of the religious adherents themselves. If we want to condemn religious groups because of intrafaith discrimination against women, I think we have a long list-- I doubt we'll anytime soon see a woman Pope, a woman reverend heading up evangelical Christian organizations, a woman leader of the Mormon church, or an Islamic mosque, etc. I don't know enough about Hindus to comment.

To: greenspirit who wrote (12840)	2/28/2000 9:55:00 AM
From: Brian P.	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769670

Michael, Orthodox Jews are not hurting anyone in America. The Bob Jonesers are. The issue of how the Orthodox have, since time-immemorial, organized their male-female relations amongst themselves is a separate issue and really only their business. To characterize them as "forcing women and children into the cold" is a bit much, to say the least. Would that more of us took care of our families and lived such upright lives as they do. That is not to say I want to organize relations between men and women in this country the way they do or the way the Old Order Amish do. Of course not. But the Jews and the Amish ain't hurting nobody. They are not the ones spewing garbage about other races and other religions in the most un-American way imaginable. Brian