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Strategies & Market Trends : DAYTRADING Fundamentals -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Eric P who wrote (7101)	3/4/2000 11:39:00 AM
From: OZ	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 18137

I believe all orders are sent to NITE with the branch sequence number of the individual account.... They get the MPID designation from each order (broker/dealer). For those that do not know what an MPID is, it is the 4 letter code that identifies the various entities. NITE,MASH,etc.. I believe their favorite is NERD and LAMB which represents E-Trade and Datek...<GGG> OZ

To: Eric P who wrote (7101)	3/4/2000 3:45:00 PM
From: Threei	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 18137

Like Eric, I was enjoying collaboration with NITE for a short period of time, two or three months. Note that I use word enjoying with no sarcasm. Yes, there were sometimes all those nasty things like unfilled orders despite plenty of MMs and ECNs at the price I wanted, then NITE appearing with my order at the bid, or sudden troubles with cancelling. But overall, quality of fills improved greatly. I was able to trade stocks that I wouldn't touch with traditional routing, and I felt way safer trading volatile stocks. Also, some strange (and very nice) price improvements were compensating for those cases when my orders remained unfilled. If I entered buy at 20 1/8 when really volatile and fast rising stock was quoting 20 x 1/8 and in a second found out that I own it at 19 1/4, NITE never called back saying they want to break the trade. So, I either never called anywhere to complain about unfilled orders :) Kinda fair, isn't it? Although I can trade and make a living with or without NITE, I would prefer to have this route. It sure was much easier to get things done, like Eric said. To me, it's not that clear if NITE is evil... They make money - well, that's what they are for in the stock market. They trade on info they have - well, who doesn't? They have more info than we do - what else is new? Investors placing pre-opening market orders getting robbed - since when market order in this situation is smart thing to do? No, I am not MMs advocate, neither an trying to blame them with anything. My approach is pure pragmatic - what works should be used to the extend it works. What doesn't - just don't use it. You figured out the game they play - try to take advantage of it if possible, or stay away, but don't become a victim. I guess what I am really trying to say is: if good traders use NITE to their advantage to such a degree that NITE eventually refuses to deal with them and others lose money with NITE - folks, we have the same old story... Some can make money trading and some can't. I bet those who made money with NITE and got cut off, were still able to make money without NITE, right? I know I did. I know Eric did. What makes us successful is inside us. No point in fairness quest - market isn't about fairness. (Disclaimer: I realize it's all arguable) Vadym

To: Eric P who wrote (7101)	3/6/2000 8:40:00 PM
From: dunlurkin	Respond to of 18137

Interactivebrokers had a similar setup with MASH a while back, and it was sweet. Instantaneous fills all the time at the inside, often w/ price improvement. It didn't last either- possibly for the same reasons that NITE cuts off profitable groups of accounts. I speculated at the time that it was because Schwab, which owns MASH, had just bought cybercorp, and didn't want to do business with competitor, but this discussion has me rethinking that.