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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Neocon who wrote (75866)	3/21/2000 5:05:00 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Your research is flawed since you obviously haven't seen BraveHeart. Well I don't know if you count first right laws as intermarriage.

To: Neocon who wrote (75866)	3/21/2000 5:09:00 PM
From: jbe	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

Neo, why do you assume the Protestant Episcopalians were all English by origin? The conversion would have occurred BEFORE they became members of the elite, because it is what MADE them the elite. The fact that many of them got together with Catholics in the Wolfe Tone Society should tell you something about their ethnic origin. Even today, lots of "pure" Irish speak no Gaelic. If speaking Gaelic is your touchstone, then there are hardly any Irish at all. But their revenge on the English has been to take over the English language and colonize it! <g> Long live James Joyce! (Of the lapsed Catholic persuasion.)

To: Neocon who wrote (75866)	3/21/2000 5:42:00 PM
From: jbe	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

You want "mentions of conversions"? Here you go: The penal laws were designed to draw a religious barrier between the landlord class (which would be restricted to Anglicans) and the Catholic / Presbyterian peasantry. Catholic landlords could retain their land but only at the price of converting. Between 1703 and 1788 some 5,000 Catholic landowning families became Anglicans[16]. In addition by becoming agents for absentee landlords many of the Catholic gentry went underground. It's calculated that "If one includes 'convert' estates, the figures for 'Catholic' ownership of land reaches about 20%"[17]. In addition to breaking up Catholic owned estates the Penal laws also ruled that "No prelate was allowed to reside in Ireland under a penalty of being hanged, drawn and quartered. ... No Catholic could serve in the armed forces or possess arms... nor ride a horse worth more than œ5. They could not vote or be members of parliament or citizens of an incorporated town"[18]. In short even if Catholics could acquire wealth they were still excluded from any participation in decision making. flag.blackened.net There's lots more! Sounds as if the inducements to convert were pretty strong.