Hello Wolff,
I was hoping that we would hear from you! I was looking forward to your responses so that we can continue to explore the wearable computer marketplace ... and it's specific implications to a company like Xybernaut. Very much like you, I am spending a lot of time examining and evaluating this exciting new technology, and potential investment opportunity.
> Mr.Lemon..can you stop wasting the first line with spaces
> and put some text up there, you stream of "Hello Wolff",
> without anything else up in the line is a waste of
> space...just as bad as my need to tell you this
> now....okay?
I can see that we are going to start off on the right foot! It appears that instead of continuing to communicate like adults about a good technical subject, you have once again decided to focus on personal attacks. I'm hoping that you realize that all of the people reading this thread are evaluating both sides of our "debate". And as for your arguments, I'm afraid that you aren't going to convince me ... ever. So your real objective should be to convince the others on this thread that you know what you are talking about. I'm going to try and help you a little and suggest that if you can refrain from personal attacks, then you might appear a little more believable ...
I'm afraid that one of the "rights" that we have in this country, and that carries over to this message board is the "freedom" to do as we please. I can not stop you, or anyone else, from posting (within the rules) on this thread. So you are free to post what you like ... and heck, that means that I am also! ;-)
So as for my desire to say "Hello" to you, it's my right. Actually, it's more than that ... it's known as a greeting. I'm not sure about you, but I start my posts that way because I want to try and be friendly and open. I actually look forward to discussing and debating on-line with my peers, and various people that I meet. I enjoy this ...
You, on the other hand, seem to always come off as an angry person who is frustrated by something, but I don't know what that is. I'm sorry if you have bad days, but maybe people would be more friendly towards you if you took a slightly better approach. I've been told the same thing by people ... and I've found that it works. ;-)
I'm almost interested in dividing your points to individual posts so that we can pursue a thread on each one ... let me know if you would like me to do that in the future. This is going to be a long post ... ;-)
> 1. As far as you need to misled with a post on prices, in
> more than one post, yes I think you are intelligent and
> yes I think you are bright enough to figure that out. Did
> you come up with any onther prices to establish these
> cost issues.
I'm sorry, but I'm not quite sure what you are asking for here. You seem to start off with some personal attack, and then follow that with a sentence that I can't quite understand. Can you ask this question in a post all by itself? I'm not sure, but are you asking for some example costs of the PDAs that you listed? Or for the components of wearable computers?
> NO. XYBR units are 10 times or more the price of simular
> units giving simular or better functionality today in the
> necessary applications for the broader marketplace needs
> and purposes.
Ok ... so you are stating, to everyone here on this thread, that you can provide us detailed information and URLs on a competing product which is available today that provides "simular or better functionality" for $500? I know that below you state that the price is more like $7000 so with 10 times the price, that means $700.
Please, I know that everyone here would like to see this product! Please post the URLs and/or contact information on this $700 wonder product. I could sell thousands of them right now!
> The price of a workable XYBR unit is upwards of 7000
> dollars given the battaries, cases, keyboards, mouse,
> software, etc etc etc. At 5000 dollars its marginal at a
> best. Characterize me how you feel, but I remain
> convinced your low-ball price was not an accident. You
> know better!
So I would like to see an actual price quote on the complete unit ... I'm sure that you have called a vendor and know the absolutes. The current prototypes that we are building are targeting a $3000 complete with 25%+ gross margins. So I have no reason to believe that it's not possible by any other vendor. If you are certain that my intentions are evil, then there is very little that I can do about that. Please feel free to think of me as evil.
> ----Please tell me why you thought telling me you could
> buy a fully working MA4 at 3200 was important again?
You suggested a price, which I then looked up on Yahoo! ... and the difference was quite significant. I have admitted that I did not read the web site thoroughly and was misled by the paragraph at the top of the page. If you would like to continue to think evil thoughts of me, please ... feel free.
> 2. I never said accusations are a problem, I said
> acussations based on your mis-reading off my text and how
> you felt I thought or whatever are a problem. You posted
> incorrect information. That is black and white. Tell me
> what I have said that is incorrect and I will look at it
> and take responsiblity to correct.
So here I am again not sure what you are interesting in pursuing. In paragraph #1 above, you seem to be making accusations of me and my intentions ... are these the types of accusations that you are saying should not be occurring? I'm not sure what is "ok" and what is not "ok" ... is it your accusations that are "ok" or mine that are "ok"?
> Thank you for owning up to your "error" but you still
> maintained that the XYBR solution is not grossly over the
> price of what is currently available. 10 times the cost
> is not a trival amount.....Again Scott, Price is a
> factor. You have owned up to your error but not the false
> context you used the "error" to show. XYBR devices are
> and are expect to continue to be DRAMATICALLY more
> expense than other solutions. PRICE IS A FACTOR
Hmmm ... I have tried to explain to you several times that if you are going to suggest that a primitive PDA can equal the power and flexibility of a full PC, then you are wrong.
I am also going to suggest that the majority of *all* PDA owners are also going to have a full PC somewhere ... and if a full blown PC can then be made small and unobtrusive as a PDA, then people will carry a full blown PC.
I will also suggest that if you would like to continue price comparisons, then you need to include the price of the PC with the price of the PDA since these people will be buying both today.
I will also agree that price is a factor ... and that is why people will buy a wearable, instead of an old-fashioned desktop computer and PDA combination ... ;-)
> 3. I was rushing with my typing....yes the killer
> application to the Palm is indeed its link and storage to
> the PC, it is exactly this satelite type structure for
> the Palm that made it NOT the NEWTON.
Ok ... so I'm not sure, but you seem to be arguing with yourself! In paragraph #1 (thanks for numbering them!) you stated that you could buy something "simular or better functionality today" in the form of a PDA from your earlier posted list. But now you are admitting that they require a PC to provide the user with everything they need? So you are now, in some hidden way, admitting that you were wrong?
So this means that in the pricing comparisons, we *do* have to include the price of the PC? I think that I need to thank you, but I'm not sure ...
> The Newton failed by its attempt to put all the power in
> the hand. The concept of the newton was correct, the
> execution failed. All the power is being put on the XYBR
> MAs as well.
Ok ... so if you like we can evaluate the Newton, and try to determine what went wrong, and what was learned. I actually enjoyed playing with the Newton ... it was an amazing machine for it's day. (I forgot to mention that I have cousins who have worked for Apple since the Lisa ... so I've been pretty plugged into the industry! ;-)
The overall problem, in my opinion, simply had to do with the fact that it didn't run all of the applications that I needed at that time. I still needed a full blown PC, and at the price of the Newton it was just too much.
I know that you state the Newton failed "by its attempt to put all the power in the hand", but could you please provide some more detail behind this statement? I'm trying to determine exactly what you mean by "power in the hand" ... does this mean too heavy due to batteries? Or are you agreeing with me that it was the lack of applications breadth? I'd like to learn more from you in this area ...
> 4. The Mac was a curiosity until Excel made its way to
> have business users buy them. We are talking pre-Windows
> 1.0 or in that time frame. (Yes I did play with Windows
> 1.0) Whether you want to understand this or not is not
> material...later it became desktop publishing...the point
> is a key application drives product acceptance. Scott you
> can check it out and find my Excel, statement to be
> correct.
Ok ... I've e-mailed my cousin to ask his perspective, as a 15+ year Apple employee. I'm sorry, but at this time I'll believe what he says ... ;-)
As for Windows, then we are both familiar with the old tiled vs. overlapping windows concepts huh? Yeah ... I still have my Windows v1.0 *and* full SDK ... I was wondering what it would fetch on E-Bay!
As for your comments on the VCR ... are you saying that you were wrong there? And maybe on some of the others? ;-)
> 5. Cell phone is for communications to individuals, how
> is this verbal communication lacking in any way, your
> cellphone comparison to wearables is silly.
My, you really are out of touch with what is going on in the industry! I'm sorry, but I'm simply basing my statements on the specific announcements of the largest cellphone vendors in the world. If you visit the Symbian web site, you can see and read about the future of cell phones ... symbian.com
Oh yes, and this page will list for you the *owners* of this future: symbian.com
I'm sorry, but when I look at the names - Ericsson, Motorola, Nokia, Matsushita/Panasonic - I think that they are capable of defining much of what the future of cell phones is about.
Now you might also look at Qualcomm ... they are providing their new pdQ smart phone ... which starts to add Palm-type computing to the cell phone: kyocera-wireless.com
So, when you ask how it is lacking in any way ... well, I believe that these vendors have decided that it is lacking web-browsing, e-mail, and other applications.
> 6. What I am saying with the comparison to Walkmans is
> the societal preasures for against bubble people.
> Walkmans are shunned in public becasue of there isolation
> factors. Notice the IBM commerical, did you see any
> people around the guy screaming in the air, would you
> think he would have been accepted or shunned? Apply your
> theories to reality and they give way. Walkmans are used
> for exercise or for listening to stuff in you cube at
> work, and that is about it these days.
Yes ... and automobiles were "shunned" when they first arrived. There are always social implications of new technologies. Cell phone usage in restaurants, and in movie theaters is a well known problem. Are you arguing that this will eliminate and stunt the development of the cell phone market? Or do you think that society will develop new norms for the usage of such devices in these (and many other) locations?
I believe that wearable computers will gain the advantage of entering a path that has already been cleared by the cell phones ... wearable vendors will get a better perspective of what worked, and didn't work, in society.
> 7. Video phone technology has been around for some time
> now, but with no adoption......why?
This is actually a very good discussion ... and I would love to have it with you! How about if I suggest that we move it over to the White Pine thread? There are a lot of people there that would appreciate the value of us exploring this area.
In short, the answer is "bandwidth" ... there just wasn't enough cheap bandwidth to make the whole thing feasible. Other than that, hardware costs and the development of compact CCD cameras, etc.
Are you saying that it never will be?
> 8. You are implying that a werable computer is a better
> enviroment that others methods.....again I maintain that
> most data will be contained centrally with application
> specific content devices extractly them.
So if this true, then you need to explain the privacy issues involved, and how do we then calculate the cost of this central system? Are you somehow going to argue that these "other systems" that store all your data are free? I'm afraid that I don't believe that ... unless you enter into the equation the ability for the owner of these systems to exploit you for the value of your data ... hence the privacy issues.
If the "central system" is your own home computer, then again we find ourselves back at the same place where we have to include the price/cost of the home computer in the calculations. Right?
> The multi-dexterious PC is going away.....Give me a RISC
> based Gecko web browser with storage on my personal net,
> then who needs a full PC anyway.
I will agree with you that many people will be able to get "free" services by allowing themselves to be exploited for the marketing data. But other than this, you will have to pay for the "storage on my personal net" ... and so as long as we bring these costs into the equations, then I would be willing to explore this further with you.
> Oh yes Boeing and other micro-niche markets. XYBR already
> has them.
Yes ... I agree, and you seem to admit that these markets are already being aggressively pursued by Xybernaut ... and successfully!
> 9. I feel no lack of historical perspective here Scott,
> what is your point, less implications perhaps a straight
> question from you?
I'm sorry, but again I'm not sure what you are referring to ... can you quote the original text?
> 10. Scott explain to me how wearable will be both High
> Bandwith, be mobile, be voice primary activated, and be
> low cost?
Ok ... I'm not sure that I understand what you mean by "high bandwidth". I asked you to explain yourself on this one ... but I'll try ...
So I have a Dell laptop here that I am working on. I'm currently connected at 11Mbps to an access point that is 40-50 feet away. This is a $179 802.11b card from Lucent. The access point is $350. (This is another area that I do a lot of research in ... and I think that 802.11b is going to show up everywhere ... Nokia is already all over this!)
So for $179, which people are spending on their laptops they get both high-bandwidth and mobility. For more money, $800, I have also bought some Wireless Mountain spread spectrum radios. These have come down in the last year from $1300. They will do 100kbps, full duplex, with a range of 20 miles. The cell phone vendors are moving forward with 3G and HDR which will both offer these higher data rates via the cell phone networks.
As for voice activated, I have been using the L&H software for quite a while using the standard sound card that is supported by the MA IV, and any other supported sounds card. I think that I bought the software at Fry's in the Bay Area for $49.
So remember, we are simply looking at costs of standard laptops and software ... just in a completely different form factor. Yes, the display technologies are still being worked on, but it is getting very close ...
> I know you feel inspired, but give me a break on you lab
> Beta experiments. Cellphones are still trying to cover
> the entire nation.
But to be "successful" and generate revenue, these products don't have to be everywhere! They simply need to be available in the high-concentration city centers, where all the new fads and trends emerge. And where many of the limitations of open space are removed.
> Scott I am sorry but you inspired vison of the future of
> XYBR lacks the necessary elements to connect the dots
> together.
I'm sorry that I have not been able to provide you more information. I will be glad to continue this discussion and learn more with you!
> I maintain the vision of your XYBR future, has been and
> continues to remain hot air and vaporware.
The best part of these message boards, is that at some point in the future we will not have to argue about what was said, and who was "right" ... these posts are becoming the permanent record of an entirely new kind of future. And all of what you are writing is becoming a new form of historical record that will hold forever our words for all to come back to and review.
I look forward to the next 5 years, and I look forward to being able to come back and re-read your words ... and mine. ;-)
Thanks!
> hasta
de nada
Scott C. Lemon |
