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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Dayuhan who wrote (78650)	4/22/2000 8:38:00 AM
From: nihil	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

I think the British declared war on Germany out of the a moral conviction that they had support Poland to which they had made guarantees. There was certainly no immediate threat to Britain. Scarcely anyone who could count thought it was a wise thing for Chamberlain to do. The French did much the same. Both had previously refused to defend Czechoslovakia under threat by Germany. No one defended China from Japan's attack, but Roosevelt went as far as he could in 1941 to force Japan to withdraw and restrain itself from the DEI, at the same time that he was using the Fleet and Lend-Lease to assist Britain. Internally, of course, there are many examples of struggles against fascist regimes. South Korea looks like an increasing successful struggle to overthrow and replace a military dictatorship with a reasonably free and democratic electoral regime. The Philippines and Indonesia are complicated and you are better informed on them. What do you think? Thailand's an important developing example. Even at its worst, its military dictatorships could not properly be called fascist. The best examples of all, I believe, are reform of Japan and Germany under US occupation. Have there ever been two better lost wars? In retrospect, have ever two societies reformed themselves into political images of their conquerors with more zeal and thoroughness. When one considers the actual state of American democracy in 1945 when it took over responsibility for Japan and (part of) Germany -- the racism, the discrimination, government regulation of industry, the tax rates (91% marginal income tax rate), the tariffs, it is a wonder that they learned so much of what was good and took so little of what was bad from us as a lesson. Fascism collapsed in both countries as soon as the knife was taken from the jugular.

To: Dayuhan who wrote (78650)	4/22/2000 10:08:00 AM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Well, I am sorry to approach absurdity, of course. Since I have decided not to object to your assertion that the origin of civilization is refinements in the survival instinct, I will let this particular argument languish..... I have already adduced the Holocaust resisters. I would also include DeGaulle, Churchill, and Roosevelt, each of whom could have sought an understanding with the fascist regimes. DeGaulle could have followed Petain; Hitler was prepared to allow Britain to retain its Empire, in return for the recognition of German hegemony in Europe; and Roosevelt deliberately courted confrontation, because he felt it urgent to get into the war. None of them fought for survival, but over the shape of the future world......