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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Tom Clarke who wrote (78754)	4/23/2000 12:19:00 PM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

Yes, experience ordinarily turns one conservative. And you are correct about Goldwater, for the most part, except that the experience of having a gay grandchild made him more prickly towards the fundamentalists.......

To: Tom Clarke who wrote (78754)	4/24/2000 4:09:00 AM
From: nihil	Respond to of 108807

An excellent example of a conservative youth who turned liberal, actually radical as he matured, was Abraham Lincoln. Another example is George Washington, who wanted nothing more in life than to be a Royal Officer, but ended up a revolutionary. Almost any American revolutionary was far more radical mature than young -- cousin John Witherspoon for one. Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, Teddy Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Earl Warren, George, William and Henry Wallace, Justice Black, Huey Long, JFK, General Marshall, Bill Brennan, thousands of new dealers, fair dealers, new frontiersmen, became far more liberal than they were as youths. The thing that is strange is that most people become less authoritarian as they age if they live in a democratic society, but the democratic society evolves so rapidly that they appear to have turned to the right. This is a cohort effect. It's hard for us to think of a man like LBJ who used the "n" word all as a radical. But when he was trying to get Thurgood Marshall (who grew more radical every year) to accept appointment as Solicitor General he said "I want people to walk into my Justice Department and see a n..... sitting there, and TG knew that he would do anything that LBJ asked. The generations change. When I was in eighth grade civics at Atlanta O'Keefe Jr. High School we had a student senate -- we chose a senator to be -- and all chose Democrats. We voted on Roosevelt's Fair Employment Practice committee which fought segregation in defense employment. 34-2 against. We're mostly dead or grown up now, and the city we lived in has had a succession of black mayors and congressmen, few of whom were voted for by my former classmates. The city is majority black, all of my former classrooms are desegregated. But it is a fine city, far more liberal than in my day, one of the most hospitable to business, a true international city that was selected for the centennial olympics because of its racial and international hospitality. Perhaps when we look at individuals we see changes either way. When we look at peoples, on the whole, everywhere, we see more liberalization. If people move to the right as they grow we may well return to fascism. If they become more liberal and less authoritarian, we may move to a new freedom. My latest favorite radical reform is to make every man's home his castle. I want to see any entry to a person's home made illegal, with or without a warrant. Let the police wait outside. I don't care if he is a child abuser or a murderer. As long as he stays in his home (and pays his rent?), I say let him alone.

To: Tom Clarke who wrote (78754)	4/24/2000 4:10:00 AM
From: nihil	Respond to of 108807

An excellent example of a conservative youth who turned liberal, actually radical as he matured, was Abraham Lincoln. Another example is George Washington, who wanted nothing more in life than to be a Royal Officer, but ended up a revolutionary. Almost any American revolutionary was far more radical mature than young -- cousin John Witherspoon for one. Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, Teddy Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Earl Warren, George, William and Henry Wallace, Justice Black, Huey Long, JFK, General Marshall, Bill Brennan, thousands of new dealers, fair dealers, new frontiersmen, became far more liberal than they were as youths. The thing that is strange is that most people become less authoritarian as they age if they live in a democratic society, but the democratic society evolves so rapidly that they appear to have turned to the right. This is a cohort effect. It's hard for us to think of a man like LBJ who used the "n" word all as a radical. But when he was trying to get Thurgood Marshall (who grew more radical every year) to accept appointment as Solicitor General he said "I want people to walk into my Justice Department and see a n..... sitting there, and TG knew that he would do anything that LBJ asked. The generations change. When I was in eighth grade civics at Atlanta O'Keefe Jr. High School we had a student senate -- we chose a senator to be -- and all chose Democrats. We voted on Roosevelt's Fair Employment Practice committee which fought segregation in defense employment. 34-2 against. We're mostly dead or grown up now, and the city we lived in has had a succession of black mayors and congressmen, few of whom were voted for by my former classmates. The city is majority black, all of my former classrooms are desegregated. But it is a fine city, far more liberal than in my day, one of the most hospitable to business, a true international city that was selected for the centennial olympics because of its racial and international hospitality. Perhaps when we look at individuals we see changes either way. When we look at peoples, on the whole, everywhere, we see more liberalization. If people move to the right as they grow we may well return to fascism. If they become more liberal and less authoritarian, we may move to a new freedom. My latest favorite radical reform is to make every man's home his castle. I want to see any entry to a person's home made illegal, with or without a warrant. Let the police wait outside. I don't care if he is a child abuser or a murderer. As long as he stays in his home (and pays his rent?), I say let him alone.