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Strategies & Market Trends : Gorilla and King Portfolio Candidates -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: shuebert who wrote (23686)4/27/2000 1:11:00 AM
From: Mike Buckley  Respond to of 54805
 
Shuebert,

When are you going to get around to finishing your 5th symphony? :) Sorry. Couldn't resist.

To get the full poop on stock valuations go to Fool.com. In the top right corner of your monitor you'll find a drop-down menu. Near the bottom of the menu you'll see a cagetory, Fool's School. In that category you'll find the topic, Valuing Stocks. It's the best stuff I've seen explaining all the different types of traditional valuations and the type of companies they generally work best with.

Good luck! Glad to see that the subject of valuation is becoming a little more important around here. Sorry that it took a substantial decline in the market and people's net worth to bring it about.

--Mike Buckley



To: shuebert who wrote (23686)4/27/2000 1:49:00 AM
From: Seeker of Truth  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 54805
 
I'm not up on evaluation either, but here's a possible ladder, short as it may be, to get closer up there. Suppose a stock is growing(the book value, the sales and the profits) at 50% a year. What is the right P/E? You can see the error at once from the silliness of the question. This number 50% is either the last two known years or last year's known figure compared with this year's unknown figure. But we don't invest for one year and then the world is finished, curtain falls. What we are interested in is the entire future. Some 50% a year stocks are simply stronger than others. So for one stock we might estimate growth rates of 50%, then 30% then 15%. Another stock might grow at the rate of 50%,then 45%,then 40% etc. If we think this is a reasonable guess as to the future then we should pay more for the latter stock than for the former. Some companies jumped into a growth area early but barriers to entry are low so much competition can be expected. Other companies have a proprietary architecture that everybody wants to build around and barriers to entry are high. The latter are known as gorillas. But even gorillas may wither away, as the area which they dominate may get less and less important. So we have to include that fact if we see it. Anyway, we multiply 1.5 by 1.42 by 1.36 by 1.33 etc. until we reach the probable time when the company is just average and is growing at 5-7% a year. At year Y what does our process predict for the earnings? If we want our stock to appreciate by 15% a year then we should have a reasonable P/E by year Y. Let me give an example. 1.5x1.3x1.1. This three year period gives a growth of 2.145 times. So if we expect that the P/E will be 20 after three years and the P/E is 30 now then the price will have grown from 30 times something to 42.9 times something, i.e. about 12% a year. If you want faster growth then you'll have to pay a lower P/E or else find a stock which will grow for a longer term.
So how does one easily find those numbers out in the future? It's not easy. But one has general impressions. Take IBM for example. I can't see 15% a year ahead for them. Not enough bright young people stay there. Multiply by 1.1 or so for many years, let's say. That reflects their dominance of the main frames. HP doesn't make user friendly computers. That's my experience anyway. I wouldn't give them a fast growth rate. On the other hand I find Netscape impressive for the usual reasons and I'd guess 1.5,1.45,1.4 and so on.
Six or seven years of good growth. Just a guess. BUT WE HAVE TO HAVE SOME GUESS. Otherwise we can't connect a P/E number to our analysis. We could change the guess at sunrise after having met a customer or an employee of the company we're looking at. Just my 2 cents. But one thing should be noted. Growth rates of 50% per annum are unsustainable. It's not a question of whether but when they slow down. Also the more facts we know about a company, the better guesses we can make. Accessing the gorilla quality is the road to the key facts. I just learned about the gorilla game seriously last year. Read the posts of Mike Buckley, Uncle Frank and the other wise people. There's an education there. Probably a quickie course isn't possible.



To: shuebert who wrote (23686)4/27/2000 12:13:00 PM
From: Pirah Naman  Respond to of 54805
 
Susan:

More knowledge about valuation will not always save you. There will always be error or fuzziness in your calculations, but more important, other participants in the market can and do set prices which will be above or below your estimation of intrinsic value. Then they will confound you by lowering prices that are already beneath value, or raise prices that are already above value, at least for a short time. What I'm trying to say is, learning can improve your returns over the long haul, but the short term pains do not disappear. By the same token, your short term pains may well disappear, so don't feel disheartened.

I am not aware of any good tutorials on valuation on the web, but I will look around some more. I did find one easy read on why free cash flow is more appropriate than earnings at japonica.com. (I have no idea who Japonica is.) I would say it doesn't go far enough, as it doesn't describe the problems companies with negative free cash flow sometimes get into, but it is a start. I will keep looking.

- Pirah