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To: Enigma who wrote (52011)	4/27/2000 3:57:00 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 116795

It would be helpful if you put yourself in the shoes of this father and this child. Oh believe me... I have. And were I the father, I would have been openly petitioning to travel to the US IMMEDIATELY to obtain custody of my child. I certainly wouldn't have waited 4 months. I would have petitioned my local priests, foreign broadcasters...etc, until Fidel bowed under the political pressure. That tact would quite likely have landed me in one of Fidel's stark prisons, accused of subversion against the state, but it would have been the proper thing to do. Yes, enigma... place yourself in this father's shoes. Is he truly able to obtain custody of his son, or will he merely be Castro's pawn, possessing only transitional custody until such a time that Castro can reassert Cuba's claim over the boy. Recognizing that Castro has ultimate control over his fate (and that of his remaining family in Cuba), has he struck a deal to win a favorable political position in Castro's regime as a reward for securing Elian's return? The Cuban interests section here in DC has ALREADY STATED THAT ELIAN BELONGS TO CUBA. That CUBA HAS RIGHTFUL CUSTODY over Elian as a ward of the Cuban state. Cuba is not the US. Custodial rights over children there are not equivalent to custodial rights here. All children are the property of the Cuban state, with parents only granted supervisory rights over their own children. Should those parents opt to defy the Cuban government and not raise them according to Castro's will, they will be removed and placed under the supervision of someone more amenable to the communist indoctrination. Do not try and be so foolish as to deny the reality of the situation. There are plenty of examples of Castro's brutality towards the Cuban people that go back decades. Castro's Cuba is an evil empire. It is a totalitarian state where EVERYTHING is owned by the Cuban state, headed by Fidel Castro. As for a minor making application for asylum, it has happened before and the Ukranian boy who successfully made that claim still resides here in the US as an adult, and has spoken on behalf of Elian's cause. I've associated with many people who formally lived under totalitarian regimes in both Russia, East Germany, and Nicaragua. They all basically verify the same stories of neighborhood watch committees compelling neighbors to inform on one another. We have the records of the E. German secret police, that verify this very fact. Sending Elian back without due process of law is inconceivable given this reality. As for opening up trade with Cuba causing the downfall of Castro, that argument certainly has merit. However, giving him a moral victory and further reinforcing the belief that "you can run from Fidel, but you cannot hide" certainly will not. We should open trade and travel on OUR terms, not his. If the rest of the world chooses to subsidize his tyranny, that is their decision. And btw, if you want to find further example of Castro's terrorism, you have only to look to what occurred in front of the Cuban interests section up on the 2000 block of 16th street in DC. A crowd of cuban protestors were in front of the mission with signs and chanting their support for Elian's staying here in the US. Some Cuban diplomats, apparently intoxicated showed up across the street, removed their jackes and jewelry and proceeded to wade into this crowd and beat the hell out of them. The event was witnessed by uniformed US secret service officers who called for assistance in breaking up the fight. The funny thing is that the local rag, the Washingtonn Post, has done a convenient job of glossing over the entire event. Not only do they think they have carte blanche to beat up on their own citizens, they believe they can get away with beating up US citizens on our own soil. But I guess that's OK with you, right? Hell, I bet you would have been one of those people who would have advocated using Federal Marshals to send escaped slaves back to their slave masters in the south. Regards, Ron

To: Enigma who wrote (52011)	4/27/2000 5:31:00 PM
From: Rarebird	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 116795

OT First of all, I think I know where you are coming from. I've been to Canada a number of times. In 1972, I hitchhiked from Quebec City to Vancouver on that major Interstate of yours. I spent a good month walking the trails in Banf and Jaspers ( the real rugged Rocky Mountains) and I spent a whole summer in Montreal in 1976, a couple of blocks from Magill University, where my brother went to Med School and married a French Canadian Girl ( She loves NYC by the way.). I had a great time in Canada and thought the Canadians were extremely humane and nice. In contrast to some of the State Troopers in the US who use to search my back pack like I was a fugitive, the Canadian police would stop and ask me if I wanted to be taken to a youth hostile. After I said no, they just smiled and moved on. Many Canadians used to comment to me often that I was not your typical arrogant American who came up to Canada and started bragging about how great the USA was and how Canada was merely an offshoot of the USA. It's true, I wasn't that way and I let the Canadians talk all day about their great country and why they chose to live there rather than the USA. All I can say is they treated me great. I liked the women too <ggg>. Now for that Cuban Boy. I think he should go with his father. This is not a political matter. It makes no difference whether Cuba is communist or not. The rights of the immediate family are higher than the rights of the state. That is the bottom line. The child is 6 years old. I remember the lesson of the great Greek tragedy, the " Antigone", where the state overstepped its bounds.