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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: enzyme who wrote (108628)4/30/2000 5:54:00 PM
From: enzyme  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1571055
 
AMD chip set could start DDR ball rolling

Apr. 29, 2000 (Electronic Engineering Times - CMP via COMTEX) -- NEW ORLEANS -
Advanced Micro Devices Inc. is poised to release a chip set that supports the
Athlon processor used with double-data-rate DRAM. The launch could be a key
factor in whether mainstream PC systems embrace DDR, which is starting to see
support in graphics applications in a still-fragmented memory market.

At the Windows Hardware Engineering Conference 2000 here, AMD demonstrated a
prototype system using an Athlon chip and DDR memory, linked by early samples of
its 760 chip set. The 760 is slated to be available in volume in the second
half.

Earlier this month, Via Technologies Inc. also announced plans to launch a chip
set later this year for DDR memory used with the Athlon processor or with Via's
own upcoming Cyrix III device. The company has said the Cyrix III will be
pin-compatible with Intel's Celeron using the Socket 370 packaging, meaning
there will be DDR options available for both low- and high-end processors.

"The momentum for using DDR in PCs is definitely up, but the main problem is the
lack of chip sets," said Dean Klein, vice president of integrated products at
Micron Technology Inc. (Boise, Idaho). DDR chips have been available for
sampling from Micron since March, and Klein said the technology could represent
as much as 10 percent of the company's total DRAM output by the fourth quarter.


A graphics charge

While the lack of chip sets means no PCs are using DDR for main memory, the
DRAMs are starting to appear in graphics subsystems. At WinHEC, both Nvidia
Corp. and ATI Technologies Inc. released high-end graphics products that are
intended to be implemented in standalone graphics cards with dedicated DDR DRAM.
Both companies are also developing graphics products for next-generation game
consoles, another major destination for advanced memory.

Nvidia recently secured the design win to supply a part for Microsoft Corp.'s
X-Box, and since the company is already using DDR interfaces, there is
widespread speculation that Microsoft will include DDR in its X-Box road map.
ATI earlier this year acquired ArtX Inc., which had already won the bid to
provide the graphics engine for the upcoming Dolphin box from Nintendo, but the
companies have yet to say what memory technology will be used in the Dolphin.

It is commonplace in the game box field for the company designing the graphics
chip to have final say on the memory components to be deployed alongside the
engine. That is how the Toshiba-designed Emotion Engine chip inside the new Sony
Playstation II came to utilize 32 Mbytes of Rambus DRAM in every box.

But the holy grail for any DRAM supplier is PC main memory, where millions of
units ship monthly and current systems demand upward of 128 Mbytes of DRAM. The
PC will be ground zero for the DDR vs. RDRAM debate, especially now that the
Camino is available and DDR chip sets are coming online.

"The memory market in the near future will be marked by turmoil and contention,
and maybe even a little progress," said Michael Slater, executive editor of
Microprocessor Report (Sebastopol, Calif.), during a keynote address at WinHEC.

Neither technology is cheap. Avo Kanadjian, vice president of worldwide
marketing at Rambus Inc. (Mountain View, Calif.), said RDRAM products currently
sell for about 30 percent more than standard SDRAM at the same density. Much of
that comes from the extra costs associated with the larger die size compared
with basic SDRAM, and that is where DDR advocates hope to earn a price
advantage.

At current densities, Micron's Klein said, DDR DRAM chips are slightly larger
than SDRAM, but at the 512-Mbit chip generation the two technologies should have
the same die size. Micron has said DDR will eventually have the same price as
SDRAM, chiefly because identical die sizes can mean identical production costs.
But current DDR chip prices can be double that of SDRAM.

Both DDR and Rambus offer high performance, with DDR chips running at 266 MHz
and RDRAM specs claiming speeds in the 800-MHz range. But Slater said that "the
PC market is simply not hungering for huge increases in memory bandwidth,
because the memory is delivering more bandwidth than the microprocessor can use.
The dirty little secret in the PC business is that most users don't care about
performance anymore."

Instead, users demand low prices. By the fourth quarter, Klein said, DDR prices
could be just 5 percent to 10 percent higher than those for SDRAM.

While Kanadjian said RDRAM vendors are also looking to cut product costs, the
chips need different manufacturing processes and will always have a larger die
than SDRAM. And the vendor will still need to pay royalties to Rambus. All that
makes it unlikely that RDRAM will ever reach cost parity with SDRAM.

With those price points in mind, the PC OEMs seem to be weighing in for DDR
DRAM. Mark Bode, AMD division marketing manager for Athlon, said nearly all of
his customers are asking for DDR support. "We are working on a chip set to
support RDRAM, but it just isn't a priority for us," he said.


High-end market

PCs are shipping with RDRAM now, and Kanadjian said most DRAM vendors are
selling the chips about as soon as they can make them. But Slater said demand
will likely be at the PC market's high end.

The largest factor promoting RDRAM remains Intel's unwavering support. Intel is
the only company selling a chip set that supports RDRAM, and its upcoming,
high-end Willamette processor is expected to run only with RDRAM.

But if the rest of the market shifts toward DDR DRAM, that could leave
Willamette out in the cold, and after spending considerable resources to develop
a successor to its Pentium III line, Intel wants to ship the processor in the
multimillions.

Kanadjian said that current projections show about 10 percent of the total DRAM
market this year will be RDRAM, which is similar to the run rate for DDR that
Micron's Klein predicted for the fourth quarter. Kanadjian conceded the
connection between DDR's momentum gains this year and RDRAM's failure to launch
on time last year.


eetimes.com



To: enzyme who wrote (108628)4/30/2000 6:08:00 PM
From: Goutam  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1571055
 
enzyme,

< AMD has major plans for its LDT bus
ebnonline.com
>

Thanks for posting it. Found the following interesting pieces from the article you posted -

... Mitchell also said he's trying to make it "explicitly clear" that LDT's royalty-free license is not designed to generate profits, nor is it intended as a means to barter for additional intellectual property. Whether the industry shares AMD's vision is a cloudy issue. Dean Klein, vice president of the integrated products group at Micron Technology Inc., Boise, Idaho, praised the new bus, even deeming it a potential replacement for PCI.

... Two potential obstacles exist, McCarron said: cost and third-party support. The latter hurdle, at least, could well prove to be merely a crack in a well-paved road, he said. "OEMs seem to be doing whatever AMD asks, bending over backward to keep them in the market. What a difference three or four quarters makes."

... Mitchell also said that the forthcoming Sledgehammer 64-bit microprocessor will contain an integrated north bridge with an LDT connection.

... The LDT bus could be extended "down," as well, into low-cost integrated systems, Mitchell said. While he did not announce products or timetables, Mitchell said AMD is planning a single-chip integrated microprocessor, similar in concept to Intel Corp.'s forthcoming Timna chip.

Goutama



To: enzyme who wrote (108628)4/30/2000 7:23:00 PM
From: Cirruslvr  Respond to of 1571055
 
Enzyme - RE: "AMD has major plans for its LDT bus"

Thanks for posting that article. It is good to see AMD has big plans for LDT in the future. Makes losing Hotrail not so big of a loss.

An interesting thing is AMD's Mitchell is saying Sledgehammer will have an integrated north bridge. Does that mean Sledgehammer will only be able to work with the type of RAM AMD decides to make it compatible with?

It is also good to know they are working on an all in one processor.



To: enzyme who wrote (108628)4/30/2000 7:29:00 PM
From: Charles R  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1571055
 
Enzyme,

<AMD has major plans for its LDT bus>

Very nice article. Thanks for posting.

The LDT future is looking better everyday. I have been pretty disappointed with the way AMD has been handling the infrastructure side so far (including the failure to enable Spitfire/Thunderbird platform in time to take advantage of the competitors weakness). After reading this article, I wonder if, may be, just may be, AMD is not floundering on the chipset side but pushing back the infrastructure development to accomodate LDT. Would be pretty sweet if that is the case.

Looking forward to the new chipsets from AMD and partners.

Chuck



To: enzyme who wrote (108628)4/30/2000 7:43:00 PM
From: Dan3  Respond to of 1571055
 
Re: AMD has major plans for its LDT bus...

Great link. I especially like:

"OEMs seem to be doing whatever AMD asks, bending over backward to keep them in the market. What a difference three or four quarters makes."

It makes me think that we'll soon be getting a better multiple. The market needs to believe that AMD is at the point where it can make a mistake (as any leading edge tech company does from time to time) and not lose its position in the marketplace.

Regards,

Dan



To: enzyme who wrote (108628)10/1/2000 6:29:31 AM
From: Tenchusatsu  Read Replies (4) | Respond to of 1571055
 
Enzyme, re: LDT article,

Thanks for the article. Assuming Charles Mitchell of AMD has his facts altogether, there are a lot of things I did not know about LDT:

<AMD is trying to establish LDT as a universal interconnect, a single bus for what Mitchell calls "the bus hodge-podge" of PCI, Accelerated Graphics Port, DRAM, and other dedicated high-bandwidth buses inside a computer>

Very interesting. I did not know AMD was this ambitious with LDT. And I thought it was just going to be a scalable interconnect for high-end servers, which in itself is a very compelling technology.

<Dean Klein, vice president of the integrated products group at Micron Technology Inc., Boise, Idaho, praised the new bus, even deeming it a potential replacement for PCI.>

Whatever happened to PCI-X? Infiniband? Both are already open standards, very mature in their development, and have the top OEMs supporting it, including Compaq, HP, IBM, Dell, etc. I have my doubts regarding this "potential replacement for PCI," since it's already a little late in the game.

Then again, LDT was mentioned as a technology that is being considered for PCI-X bridge chips, among other applications. At least that use makes sense.

<To date, AMD said 40 hardware companies have signed on as LDT partners.>

Would those partners include Compaq, HP, or IBM? Maybe Transmeta? I'm curious. Unfortunately, AMD isn't saying.

<For 32-bit Athlon multiprocessor systems, Mitchell disclosed that a superset of the LDT specification, or "coherent LDT," has been developed for non-uniform memory-access matrixes, where arrays of processors can access dedicated local memory as well as "distant" memory that is attached to other CPUs.>

"Coherent LDT." Guess this is the new name of the scalable interconnect I was referring to earlier.

<the forthcoming Sledgehammer 64-bit microprocessor will contain an integrated north bridge with an LDT connection>

Neat. EV6 will be replaced with LDT, an interconnect w/ much better bandwidth per pin. I wonder if Sledgehammer will also include an integrated memory controller. That should be one serious design of a processor.

Sounds like grand plans for LDT, much grander than I originally thought (or AMD ever revealed in their previous announcements regarding LDT). Man, I wish I could see some of these new LDT design wins, including desktop and server chipsets.

Tenchusatsu