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To: Wizard who wrote (24)	5/2/2000 12:00:00 PM
From: Trader Dave	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 499

I don't understand this sector as well as CRM yet, but it reminds me enormously of the discussions about Siebel, Clarify and Vantive almost exactly 2 years ago. Siebel was the market leader and there were noted implementation problems and rumors of replacement at Cisco and Lucent. I even think Siebel removed Cisco from their web site of "100% reference" for a little while. (It's easy to claim 100% customer reference if you only use the referencable clients as references.) (I forget who uncovered that little maneuver.) My problem is that even if you hear SIGNIFICANT anecdotal evidence of deployment problems, it may mean nothing about long term dominance of the space. Although Vignette's conservative revenue recognition means they'll NEVER miss a forward quarter, it's valuation (and the valuation of the group) presents enormous risk if guidance goes down. Remember Clarify when they made the March quarter but said they had trouble bringing on sales people? Wasn't that a move from 59 and a fraction to around $7? I listened to that Goldman call, how mortifying can you get? The sell side stuns me with how little thought or value added analysis is used to build their investment positions. "We raised Kana and BVSN to recommended list because we have banking relationships with them and IDC says eCRM is a big market." Could they at least do a little competitive positioning analysis other than "We expect the demand to be enormous for the market and a rising tide lifts all boats. We also expect consolidation (read 5% transaction fees on overvalued stock based mergers) in the market." Why does anyone take these pimps seriously? TD

To: Wizard who wrote (24)	6/27/2000 1:54:00 PM
From: Beltropolis Boy	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 499

>Art has done some reconstructive surgery on some of Broadvisions sites and so everyone got all hot and bothered about how Broadvision's technology is no good and how Art is a friendlier environment for customized development.< hey, what about EarthWeb? <vbg> i heard BVSN ousted ARTG for that phat account. on the other hand, i heard another rumor that Kodak shitcanned BVSN. true? btw, can you tell me how BEAS fits in here? this is a minor point, but i do like that ARTG and BEAS have significant support from system integrators. BVSN has their partnerships, of course, but they don't strike me as particularly cozy amongst the developer and integrator crowd. (then again, this isn't a popularity contest and that sort of business acumen obviously hasn't hurt Larry Ellison's wad.) more significantly, care to share your thoughts on the horizontal application server (plus applications) strategy vice the vertical application strategy held by BVSN?