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Strategies & Market Trends : DAYTRADING Fundamentals -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: OZ who wrote (8420)	5/11/2000 3:17:00 PM
From: Sir Francis Drake	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 18137

YES!!! I noticed these games and had exactly the same thought (which I have about all "flashing") - wish I had $50 mln. I'd nail them hard - teach 'em a lesson, LOL! Morgan

To: OZ who wrote (8420)	5/11/2000 4:15:00 PM
From: Jon Tara	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 18137

Oz, which 5 ECNs? I have a theory. :)

To: OZ who wrote (8420)	5/11/2000 4:37:00 PM
From: Dustin	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 18137

I noticed this for the first time a couple months ago. I agree with you that the MM's use it to force a stock one way or another to their advantage. For example they will all pile up on the ask at 50 1/2 while there is one ecn, maybe REDI or INCA, sitting on the bid at 50 1/4 scooping up any sales. Once the MM has his shares the ask will disappear. They are very active in PMCS. I therefore don't trade the stock.

To: OZ who wrote (8420)	5/11/2000 6:35:00 PM
From: Dave O.	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 18137

I've seen a different game more recently. I'll see INCA bid 1000 and then ISLD immediately joins them with 1000. INCA increments by 1/16 and ISLD disappears. INCA then decrements 1/16 to the original (inside) bid. ISLD reappears at the same price. INCA increments again. ISLD disappears. Almost like a video game. This repeats over and over until more often than not another ECN or MM will jump over both INCA and ISLD at which time ISLD seems to disappear for good. INCA often then joins the inside bid or jumps over them. Seen it happen on quite a few stocks. Dave

To: OZ who wrote (8420)	5/11/2000 7:41:00 PM
From: Michael Friesen	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 18137

>> Has anyone else noticed a certain computer automated trading system...? Yes, I have been trying to figure out what is going on. I see it all the time in JDSU and I think CMGI. I usually count 4 ECNs, BRUT, REDI, BTRD, ARCA. Maybe Island is there too. And always 200 shares each. They pop up in a string on one side, and then flip over to the other. Very annoying. I was thinking that one use of such a tool is to test where liquidity is, since someone trading with your limit order (or not) is a signal about supply/demand. If I were a big trader, getting hit on 200 shares would be a small price to pay for information so that then I could go in and do 10,000 shares.

To: OZ who wrote (8420)	5/11/2000 7:48:00 PM
From: Pierre Borczuk	Respond to of 18137

I hate the guys who flash 1/64 size inside bid for 5 sec at a time repeatedly 10x a minutes...some one was doing this on some stock 2 weeks (maybe PMTC)ago drove me crazy Pierre