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Politics : About that Cuban boy, Elian -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Yogizuna who wrote (5491)	5/16/2000 11:47:00 PM
From: chalu2	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 9127

Couldn't it be that being on the wrong end of a death threat elevated Donato in the eyes of Marisleysis? Therefore, couldn't we say from Donato's standpoint: all's well that end's well?

To: Yogizuna who wrote (5491)	5/17/2000 12:12:00 AM
From: jhild	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 9127

No, there is simply no excuse for those thugs that beat up the videoman and threatened to kill Donato..... It's hell being on the wrong side of the law, isn't it? You are sounding like that Dalrymple guy yourself. "Boo hoo. What's wrong with you America. What have you done?" This from the man who has yet to turn down an interview. A man that was sleeping in Eli ncito's room when the raid came. Thinking only of Eli ncito and never himself when he grabbed Eli ncito and positioned himself in that closet with the AP photographer at hand. Well, what they have done is to demonstrate that the lawless behaviour of the Relatives in not complying with the INS, will not be tolerated, by the government at any rate.

To: Yogizuna who wrote (5491)	5/17/2000 7:16:00 AM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 9127

<<If we say that a "culture" of people in a specialized job environment become so desensitized to the brutality of their own actions that they think it's "normal" behavior, well, I think you know full well what that can lead to..... >> I think you're wrapping together in one package what I'm trying to analyze piece by piece and, in doing so, you've gotten stuck in a track that's not going anywhere. First, people in specialized job environments DO come to think that what they're doing is normal and appropriate. They can't defy their orders as you suggest because they see nothing that warrants defiance. If the game plan calls for zone defense you play zone defense. You don't want one guy to defy the coach and start playing man-to-man. Maybe someone new to the environment might do as you say you would--think independently and assert his will against the team--but that person would never to included on an elite team such as the one that grabbed Elian. I don't see this as inherently a problem. It's just part of good team work. The problem arises when these environments operate in secret and don't get any reality checks from society at large. They can spin into something of which society doesn't approve. Your position is that the INS team that grabbed Elian had passed the point of good teamwork and turned into something ugly, that the participants should have known that what they were doing was ugly, and should have acted to stop it. I'm saying that that ain't gonna happen, no way, no how, because the participants would never see what they did as ugly. It is not realistic for you to rely on defiance from team members to stop the behavior of which you disapprove and, consequently, I don't think it's fair for you to blame those individuals for not doing so. If these subcultures get out of control, there are other mechanisms for re-orienting them. This is why police forces have civilian review boards. Hospitals do the same thing. Businesses have customers and bottom lines to tell them when they're off track. When the government subculture gets a message from the outside that they have gotten out of touch with the community, there are mechanisms for righting things. They don't necessarily work quickly or perfectly, but they exist. I think your energy about this issue would be more effectively spent if you focused on inputting to the control mechanisms that exist in the system rather than flogging the civil servants. There are already activities aimed toward changing the way the INS handles these situations. The media has aired the behavior. Some Members of Congress are doing their thing. The INS has probably already convened some sort of post mortem on their procedures. Things may not change to your satisfaction because the polls indicate that your strong disapproval is not shared by the voters. If you want help your point of view to prevail, I suggest that you contribute your energies to the mechanisms that are designed to deal with this kind of change. Otherwise, you're just cursing the darkness. Karen