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Technology Stocks : Rambus (RMBS) - Eagle or Penguin -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: pompsander who wrote (42399)5/17/2000 1:51:00 AM
From: Eric K.  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 93625
 
What matters is marketing. Yes, marketing, marketing, marketing.

I would point out that Jerry Sanders is the supreme marketer. He is very good at optimism and making customers feel good about the company and its products. A comparison of his lifestyle and speeches to what comes out of Intel will make this very clear, very quickly. You could go to the following URL and check out his limo: geocities.com . You could also read about AMD headquarters and notice that the design is customized cubicles for non-management employees and "spacious hard-walled offices for executives." Compare this to Grove and Barrett's proud statements about their cubicles. Also, compare Jerry's speeches to recent Intel stuff at its IDF and developer forum. Point being, AMD's marketing is much better than Intel's.

However, I find it kind of painful to think that marketing can triumph over better engineering design. AMD has failed in the past because of pure and simple inferior design. Or, more accurately, its top speed product has always been equal to Intel's top speed product three to nine months before.

On all the other counts you mention, AMD is equal or superior. I am not sure how this idea about Intel's ability to produce chips for less got started. But, given that Intel gets $190 or so per processor, and AMD gets $80 per processor, and AMD makes a slight profit from this much, whereas Intel makes perhaps $70 untaxed (based on operating incomes in most recent 10-qs), I'm not sure how people try to make the argument that Intel would win in all out price war where Intel didn't have a superior product that it did not have to lower prices on.

Leverage-- I think your conclusion about the boxmakers going back to Intel is also incorrect. You make Gateway, Dell, et al, sound like cheap whores that will go skank back to Intel at any point. I think Intel has pulled its last trick on this count. Gateway ditched AMD in the summer mostly because of Intel financial incentives (rather than threats of not getting enough product as your post implies) and reassurances that everything would be all right soon. They came back in January. I don't think any boxmaker is going to go back to Intel so easily anymore. Intel has largely succeeded in keeping AMD out of enterprise business, but I think this is beginning to change (you can get win 2k with an Athlon from Gateway as of a few months ago). I think when Thunderbird comes out there is a decent chance of some business design wins. You can't really ignore technology here though. If AMD has a product as good as Intel's, then Intel simply does not have the leverage you describe.

Stock price-- I must disagree with your assessment of AMD's stock price. AMD made $1.15 per share ($.79 fully taxed) in the last quarter. That means AMD is trading at an annualized P/E of 28 based on current results. Let me give you the last three quarter's earnings numbers: -$.72, $.43, $1.15. Notice the trend? Intel has no response to AMD until the end of q3, so a P/E, based on a fully taxed E in q3, will be around 12. This is not exactly priced for perfection. Given that this is after a 400% run-up, you can appreciate the absurdity of AMD's 1999 valuation. If AMD is successful in its goal of capturing 30% market share, it's worth about $300 a share at a P/E of 15.

Perfection-- Intel has somehow engendered the myth that it has a superior reliability/non-stumbling record. AMD's first decade of existence was based in part on taking existing parts and improving the quality so that they met military specifications for quality (i.e.: larger temperature operating range). Intel has a long history of stumbling-- think Pentium long division "issue." It also has a history of scrambling and recovering well. (It shares this trait with Microsoft.) Its recoveries have also largely been possible due to its opponents being far behind (i.e.: AMD/Cyrix/et al went from being nine months behind to six months behind when Intel stumbled).

Anyway, I guess I should apply this to RAMBus, but I've probably written too much already. I think my points are: AMD is undervalued and a better investment than RMBS; don't underestimate AMD's abilities, especially from a marketing perspective, which is the one regards in which AMD is not at all at risk.



To: pompsander who wrote (42399)5/17/2000 3:47:00 AM
From: Bilow  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 93625
 
Hi pompsander; Great post, I think you covered the reasons for owning RMBS right now perfectly.

Where we agree completely is that what matters most is marketing. Where we disagree is in how important marketing is, and who has how much of an advantage in it. These are subjects outside my specialty, there is a chance you are right, and that Intel will prevail.

But it is clear to me that the memory makers have succeeded in bringing DDR out, and that it will be not just cheaper than RDRAM, but considerably cheaper, over the next few years. Probably a significant question is how much Intel can convince the motherboard makers to support RDRAM, or, failing that, replace their production with their own.

That Intel is in a position to subsidize RDRAM machines I have no doubt. But I also have no doubt that the memory makers are in a position to drain quite a bit of cash out of Intel. I suspect that they are planning to do this. In no way are they going to step all over each other in order to turn the memory business into a profitless commodity business.

Hyundai said that they couldn't make money on RDRAM even with it selling for 3x SDRAM. Samsung says that they are making money selling it for 2.5x. In order to get RDRAM cheap, you have to get at least three vendors capable of making it cheap. Until then, monopoly pricing obtains and the price stays high. This is a very happy situation for the memory makers that can make good profits at that price, and the other memory makers don't care that much, as long as they can make money selling into the much larger SDRAM market. They are all (pretty much) capable of biting the bullet and getting their costs down enough to sell RDRAM at 50% over SDRAM, but there really is no reason to do this, there is plenty of demand for other SDRAM right now, and companies do not always make their decisions based on the most obvious economic profit motives.

Marketing is powerful, but don't exaggerate its importance. It hasn't, for instance, kept the Edsel in production. If you look at the responses to the recent Anand editorial you get an idea of what a good bit of the community thinks about Rambus out there. That community is what will provide a happy home for initial shipments of DDR, and they will ensure that DDR remains in production for years. I believe that it is now too late for RDRAM to capture enough of the marketplace to become the cheaper solution.

The marketing of DDR systems hasn't started yet. While it is true that Intel is bigger, they are only about equal in sales per year to the total mass of the memory makers (i.e. about $30 billion per year). The memory makers can pay for a lot of advertising, and their main task is to advertise to the motherboard and box maker engineers, not to the general public. Engineers are a tiny group, and relatively cheap to advertise to.

While it is partially true that Marketing likes to think that they tell Engineering what to design, it is even more true that Engineering gives products to Marketing to market. Like you said, Marketing can find nice things to say about it, no matter what piece of feces the engineers come out with. (Incidentally, that is why one should always get the sales people really drunk and friendly before asking them the truth about their product. Or simply ask one of the engineers.) Because of these ease that marketing has with supporting different products, the real underlying dynamic, in the absence of a corporate decision to tie itself to a technology like RDRAM, is to build the cheapest product that meets the customer's desires. Cost matters, and it is easier to sell performance than glitter. You can always add glitter to a good value product and get it to sell even better, no question, but the best result happens when you put out good product with good marketing.

As far as the box makers go, CPQ sells $38 billion per year, IBM sells $86, HWP sells $45, and Dell sells $28. Even Apple sells $7 billion per year. (Yahoo figures.) We have all seen Apple advertisements, but they are tiny compared to Intel. Also, by the way, note the industry rumors regarding Apple's plans:
Chip makers also expect Apple to launch a line of desktop systems this year that will use DDR SDRAM as main memory.
techweb.com (January 14, 2000)
Any of these companies can market any kind of memory they want to, and not all of them have their interests completely devoted to supporting an Intel/Rambus duopoly. Several of them are in development of their own DDR chipsets.

As far as AMD producing a good line of future microprocessors, who knows. While their continued success is undoubtedly good for DDR (as is the success of Apple), it is no longer necessary. The Micron chipset, which appears to be the first out the door, supports Intel CPUs, and will probably sign up a lot of board makers. Micron had that chipset first running back in November of last year, it is probably on third silicon by now and ready for production:
techweb.com

No, I think it is too late to put the DDR genie back in the bottle.

But thanks again for the beautifully reasoned post.

-- Carl