Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Technology Stocks : WDC/Sandisk Corporation -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Art Bechhoefer who wrote (11130)	5/17/2000 7:22:00 PM
From: Ausdauer	Respond to of 60323

SanDisk risked the entire company on the development, deployment and marketing of CompactFlash. Art, you paint a very dreary picture, indeed. I hope that an amicable resolution is still possible. As time passes this seems less and less likely. CompactFlash represents the culmination of several areas of innovation and advance for SanDisk developed over many years. If you will, the ongoing dispute with Lexar and Lexar's disposition in this matter is perhaps the deepest insult for a scientist, experimenter, and innovator of Dr. Harari's stature. It also is insulting to all the engineering talent that have poured their hearts out in creating the working model that was later adapted for consumer use. It is insulting to all of the members of the development team that pounded on doors trying to get CompactFlash designed into just one digital camera. I am sure there are many who have contributed immeasurably along the way. Blood, sweat and tears helped create the CompactFlash standard. I stated previously (metaphorically) that SanDisk seems to have designed, engineered, funded and constructed the New Jersey Turnpike. Now it would appear they are being criticized for setting up a toll both and collecting a token for each passage. I was wrong for saying something of that sort. CompactFlash is far more elegant than that. SanDisk is like the visionary, sculptor, architect and creator of the Statue of Liberty who is now being criticized for offering boat tours around the island. And that is damned insulting no matter how you look at it...worse yet, it just isn't American. Ausdauer (That sweaty little kid in the black Ford Fairlane Station Wagon with fake wood panelling.)

To: Art Bechhoefer who wrote (11130)	5/17/2000 7:54:00 PM
From: Ausdauer	Respond to of 60323

An independent interpretation of SanDisk and its relationship to competitors. (from a post from rmmcc70 on Raging Bull) Ausdauer, I am not a registered user of Silicon Investor so I cannot post there. But I would like to make a comment in reference to your May 16, 2000 post (Reply #11095)... You mentioned that Toshiba and Hitachi are "component companies" and SNDK is a "card company". This is true. But Toshiba and Hitachi are also card companies. Hitachi sells CF cards in Japan and other parts of the world. They do not sell in the USA because of various reasons. One is they would probably be sued by SNDK if they did. Actually SNDK taught Hitachi how to build CF Cards in the late 90's because SNDK was too small to take on SmartMedia and create a standard single handedly. In 1997 Hitachi had 26% of the worldwide Flash card market revenue (22% of units sold worldwide). Hitachi is also entering the MMC market and will counter SD with their own version of secure MMC. But I bet the CF Association will not approve the new secure MMC because it will not be compatible with existing MMC cards. It would create a lot of confusion with consumers. Toshiba doesn't make CF cards, but they are the founders of SmartMedia. In 1997 they had 2% of the worldwide flash card revenue and 11% of worldwide units. The have been fighting tooth and nail to establish SmartMedia as the "defacto" standard for flashcards -- and losing. Toshiba's recent partnership with SanDisk is basically a concession showing the superiority of CF cards over SmartMedia. Now I think Toshiba will focus their attention on new applications using secure digital (SD). SmartMedia is basically doing the Betamax (Hopefully Sony's blasted Memory Stick will follow). The market share numbers for 1997 are from IDC's report dated Oct 28, 1998. I have seen the numbers for 1998 market share but I cannot find them right now. But Toshiba and Hitachi are still major players in the worldwide flash card market. Does anybody have any recent information from Semico or IDC showing the 1998 numbers? If anyone has these numbers, can you post them here or email them to me. Essentially, my feeling is that Toshiba and Hitachi have more control over their prices and production than does SNDK because they actually make all the major components. Hitachi even makes their own controllers (SmartMedia has no built-in controller). SNDK has to buy them from out NEC (and in the past Motorola). SNDK is now addressing this vulnerability with their alliances with Toshiba and UMC. I do agree with you that SNDK's ace in the hole is their patents of flash memory emulating a HDD. Q1/00 is the 1st quarter SNDK has made a profit without these royalties.

To: Art Bechhoefer who wrote (11130)	5/29/2000 7:15:00 AM
From: Ausdauer	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 60323

SanDisk Card Assembly Patents Abroad An Independent Appraisal [FROM: Raging Bull SanDisk Thread, author "rmmcc70"] "I am not a registered user of Silicon Investor so I cannot post there. But I would like to make a comment in reference to your May 16, 2000 post (Reply #11095)... You mentioned that Toshiba and Hitachi are "component companies" and SNDK is a "card company". This is true. But Toshiba and Hitachi are also card companies. Hitachi sells CF cards in Japan and other parts of the world. They do not sell in the USA because of various reasons. One is they would probably be sued by SNDK if they did. Actually SNDK taught Hitachi how to build CF Cards in the late 90's because SNDK was too small to take on SmartMedia and create a standard single handedly. In 1997 Hitachi had 26% of the worldwide Flash card market revenue (22% of units sold worldwide). Hitachi is also entering the MMC market and will counter SD with their own version of secure MMC. But I bet the CF Association will not approve the new secure MMC because it will not be compatible with existing MMC cards. It would create a lot of confusion with consumers. Toshiba doesn't make CF cards, but they are the founders of SmartMedia. In 1997 they had 2% of the worldwide flash card revenue and 11% of worldwide units. The have been fighting tooth and nail to establish SmartMedia as the "defacto" standard for flashcards -- and losing. Toshiba's recent partnership with SanDisk is basically a concession showing the superiority of CF cards over SmartMedia. Now I think Toshiba will focus their attention on new applications using secure digital (SD). SmartMedia is basically doing the Betamax (Hopefully Sony's blasted Memory Stick will follow). The market share numbers for 1997 are from IDC's report dated Oct 28, 1998. I have seen the numbers for 1998 market share but I cannot find them right now. But Toshiba and Hitachi are still major players in the worldwide flash card market. Does anybody have any recent information from Semico or IDC showing the 1998 numbers? If anyone has these numbers, can you post them here or email them to me. Essentially, my feeling is that Toshiba and Hitachi have more control over their prices and production than does SNDK because they actually make all the major components. Hitachi even makes their own controllers (SmartMedia has no built-in controller). SNDK has to buy them from out NEC (and in the past Motorola). SNDK is now addressing this vulnerability with their alliances with Toshiba and UMC. I do agree with you that SNDK's ace in the hole is their patents of flash memory emulating a HDD. Q1/00 is the 1st quarter SNDK has made a profit without these royalties."