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To: freeus who wrote (19808)5/23/2000 12:19:00 AM
From: IngotWeTrust  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 35685
 
Fascinating response, Freeus. I'll print it out, re-read it, and then sleep on it and get back to you tomorrow. I think I might have some things for you to consider that will help answer the further thoughts, clarifications, extrapolations you've shared wrt: "after targets are hit, then what?" FWIW, I think you're onto something examining that conundrum as you mentally review your day off last January to do some things differently...

BTW, do you happen to have a clean coffee filter that you can like smooth out to its circular best? I like working with visual aids...lemme know if you have one, or can cut a piece of paper into a decent circle about 5" diameter [not radius, not circumference but DIAMETER<ggg>.] Deal?

Catch you tomorrow, here on the porch. Nice Quality Breeze blowing gently tonight, yes? ;)

O/49r



To: freeus who wrote (19808)5/28/2000 5:24:00 PM
From: IngotWeTrust  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 35685
 
How about the coffee filter/origami sharing first, Freeus? Oh, and I think I'll split my response to you today into several small ones, acc'd to an outline of my thoughts-- currently residing in my open WordPerfect text document window--which is guiding my response. That way, you can pick and chose without having to wade through accompaning verbiage if something rings your bell & you'd like to either respond to it specifically or comment on a comment, okay?

COFFEE FILTER 101
I like to think outside the box when I'm trying to share with someone, and this is a classic hands-on sharing technique from me. Grab that coffee filter and a pair of scissors, ok?

After smoothing out the filter into a 360 Degree perfect circle (or for those reading: cut out a perfect 5" circle as best you can by folding a sheet of 8.5x11 into a perfect square, cutting off the excess, and then folding in half, then in half again, and then cutting out a pie shaped wedgie. When opened up, YOU will have a perfect circle to work from as well. Open and smooth out your creation.

Those of you with a coffee filter or newly created circle, after folding in 1/2 and then folding that half in half, take your scissors and cut out the 1/4 circle wedgie--- along the sharp creases--- as straight as you can. Set the 3/4 of a circle aside for backups, incase you mess up this pie wedgie with your markings, and need a fresh "wedgie."<g>

On the horizontal axis, the straight line closest to your chest, on THAT leftmost point of the wedgie, write O for Zero degrees opposite the rounded arc on your right.

At the TOP of your 1/4 circle put 90 (for 90 Degrees). A smidgin to the Right of your 90 Marking, guess at where 87 Degrees would be and mark that point with a little hash mark as well, noting that it is 87-R (Degrees).

Now, fold the 1/4 pie wedge in half. Mark this new "crease" as 45-R. along the arc in some manner with a hash mark acknowledging the "official crease."

Now, eyeball the remaining 1/8 circle arc between 45-R crease and the horizontal axis next to your chest, place a hash mark in that middle and call it 22-R (Degrees.)

Eyeball the remaining 1/8 circle ABOVE the 45-R to the 90-R marking: hashmark that point and label it as 67-R for 67 (Degrees) above the horizontal axis.

Now you have an INVALUABLE, home-made to be sure, SELLER'S GUIDE: (can double as a buyers guide as well, yes)
It is unswayed by unemotions.
It is unaffected by over-valuation talk.
It is unaffected by interest rate yammer.
It won't talk back and give you grief.
It won't let you down if you use it regularly.
It is good in bullmarkets.
And if turned upside down, it is good in bear markets to buy and sell against as well.

Those of you who still have your high school protractor,
grab it. Basically use masking tape or whatever works, and tape off the left 90 degrees on the horizontal axis so that you aren't visually bothered with extraneous numbers etc.

Those of you who like to be fancier, and spend money on something that looks good and comes from official sources,
slip $5 into an envelop, send it to the Kansas City Board of Trade, and ask for them to mail you a "Trader's Protractor."
Their address is:
Kansas City Board Of Trade:
4800 Main Ste 303
Kansas City, MO 64112
1-800-821-5228
No, they don't take credit card orders. At least they
didn't used to and it's been only $5 for about 15 years now. Better get more than one if you're going to order one. Everyone you know will want one of their own when they see/learn about how much success you have using yours.<g>

It will come in a neat little triangle folder in "see-through" clear PVC complete markings already on it. But, the homemade coffee filter wedgie, or homemade circle is JUST FINE and will serve you well.

Now, how to use this wedgie is one valuable tool to help us discuss the big question I hear you asking: what did you use to help you sell, whether it was Bre-X or whatever, O/49r.

Having fun yet?<g>

Now, locate a short 6" or a 12" rule, preferably one you can see through, as we continue this visit, okay? The edge of the homemade wedgie, while as straight as you can cut it...
...that is NOT good enough to repeatedly use as a straight edge for drawing lines.

Oh, and one more thing:

Look at your pie wedgie again and do this for me:
On that flat side that goes vertical between "0" and "90"...
write the word "PRICE" for me along that flat side, ok?
And along the bottom flat side, next to your chest, write the word "TIME" on that flat side. Each flat side is known as an "axis" (also known in math circles as a radius)...but we aren't doing geometry, we are trying to learn to identify a selling point, or points in a time/price world of making money.

Believe if or not, that little wedgie DOES correlate quite nicely over your investing career with time and price identification, just as it is in all of its homemade glory.

Next reply is now under construction

Until then, I remain
Very truly yours,
O/49r



To: freeus who wrote (19808)5/28/2000 7:43:00 PM
From: IngotWeTrust  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 35685
 
Coffee Filter 102
Let's talk about WHY we made our Price/Time Pie "wedgie," constructed in Coffee Filter 101, shall we?

Now, lest you think I'm trying to backdoor your willingness to visit about buying and selling know-how, by teaching "technical analysis" on the sly, let me say this in my defense:
I'm interested in two EASILY visible, simple skillsets, that require you to know how to do 4 things:
1) squint
2) have a pie wedgie (or KCBOT "tool", or high school protractor)
3) have a straight edge or ruler of some sort
4) use a pencil to draw a straight line with assistance<g>
5) have a printer is optional, otherwise, click and view will work!

These 2 basic skillsets all investors "should" minimally employ [in my opinion,] when contemplating SELLING, the hands down winner in every investors two big choices: when to SELL or when to BUY.

Price and time valuations NEED unemotional guidelines, against which we "should" MEASURE ALLLLLL "when to sell advice" from others, whether paid for or obtained for free here on the porch and elsewhere. I suggest strongly using the Coffee Filter Wedgie Technique to evaluate all advice at some point along the individual decision curve..

TWO SKILLSETS:
One is:
How to identify/draw a trendline--
All this requires is:
1-A) a historical picture of Price and Time activity
1-B) ability to "Squint" at the visual depiction.

Two is:
How to identify/draw a price resistance region/band and it's opposite: a price support region/band

All this requires is:
2-A) a historical picture of Price and Time activity
2-B) the ability to "Squint" at the visual depiction.

ATTENTION INTERESTED PORCHERS: PRESEEEEEENT WEDGIES!<g>
At ease!

Now grab your straight edge ruler (hopefully a see thru one)
and a pencil,
and Visine to assist in relieve eyestrain from Squinting 101 about to commence.

I will leave to the most capable Jim Willie, She_x, Greg Mullineaux to name just 3, for deeper discussion into nuances and archane Technical Analysis devination, ok??

I can get in over my head on TA discussions, and wish to not do that, because said discussions could go on forever and it might irritate some porchers which I have no desire to do.

I have a couple of EXCELLENT references I DO use/rely upon, and would gladly share those to any who wish to pursue Devination Level 101 thru Level 501 and higher course work<g>

But, for the purposes of your and my discussions, I'm going to contain myself to Coffee Filter Analysis, w/accompanying straight-edge and pencil, ok?

Now here's a Visual Aid for facilitating this discussion:
cmc.net
upon which I've typed in some Alphabetical Letters to correspond our Coffee Filter Wedgie Degree markings constructed in Coffee Filter 101.

Please click on this Visual Aid URL and print it out or leave it up in a second "browser" window to refer to as we continue the Coffee Filter Klatches in next post, Coffee Filter 103.

Please note that this visual aid is:
1) a weekly price/time action visual only through Friday 19th's activity (QCOM)
2) for purposes of illustrating Coffee Filter 103 chat only.

In Coffee Filter 103, let's apply our best squintings, mental (or physical) drawing techniques and Coffee Filter overlays.

I remain,
Porcher-ly yours,
O/49r



To: freeus who wrote (19808)5/28/2000 11:07:00 PM
From: IngotWeTrust  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 35685
 
Mission Statement Plus Coffee Filter 103
Mission Statement:
May I digress for a moment Freeus, and clarify my purpose in these Porching Klatches: I wish is to share [hopefully] empowering "when to sell" logic (via some of my tools you specifically requested) for exploring independent application by you [with a long position in XYZ stock,] vs. reading/buying/hearing fuzzy [logic?] sell advice such as you shared with the porch in your earlier lament. Said advisors I have suggested seemingly require unquestioned acceptance and blindly following "their" suggested Buy/Sell advice with a profit motive as the assumed rationale. Their utterances in my mind are typlified by such ambiguous phrases as we discussed earlier in our ongoing discussion such as "sell due to over-valuations" and "sell due to interest rate increases."

Now, since your original porch musings/laments to which I responded dealt with "400% profits" basically getting away from you, I am going to suggest how to use the Coffee Filter Wedgie Tecnique in a RISING STOCK PRICE scenario as illustrated by the Visual Aid in Coffee Filter 102 post.

This is by NO means an exhaustive exploration with you of the reasons to sell. I hope to explore more of those in upcoming exchanges with you as you have time. There is an old saying: "There are as many reasons to sell as there are individuals who are selling, but only one reason to buy a stock."

So, it is my sincere hope that by sharing this unemotional "guide" I am calling the Coffee Filter Wedgie Technique, that for "whatEVER reason" you, as an individual are asking yourself if you want to/should "sell," you have at least one, simple, dispassionate measuring tool to impact and support your decision process.

COFFEE FILTER 103:
Now let's start squinting at our Visual Aid with Wedgie in tow, shall we:
cmc.net

For the purpose of comparisons with other porchers who have cut out their best 1/4 pie shaped wedgie of a 5" circle, [my coffee filter was 9" in diameter, so I whittled it down to the 5" size] the "Time" axis is approximately 2.25" long.

The VISUAL on my Laptop monitor dimensions are: 7"L x 6"H
On an inkjet printer [portrait setting] it printed out: 6"L x 5"H
So grab your mouse and clutch those borders and drag them into these tolerances for sake of us being able to compare wedgies with wedgies instead of wedgies with ...let's say "termatas..."<g>

DIRECTED OBSERVATIONS AND ACTIVITIES:
Number 1:
Letter X designates my primary suggested starting point for you to place the ZERO indicator point [that place on the Wedgie where the Price and Time axis meet.] Please make the "Time" flat axis as parallel to either the bottom of your computer monitor or the bottom of your print out. Squinting here is "good enough" to measure parallelism with either of those two fixed reference points. Deal?

What's the first thing you see?
Answer: Probably price action on the arc side of your wedgie, correct?

Number 2:
Now squint again, and guesstimate the point you first see where price action on the visual FIRST EMERGES on the right of your arc? What would you guess that number of arc degrees to be? Write your answer here:___________

Number 3:
Now squint at the price action between letters X and Y
What would you guesstimate that number of arc degrees to be?
Write your answer here:_________

Number 4:
Porchers, time to adjust your wedgie<g> Slide your "O" wedgie point back toward the left along that flatish price action, trying to maintain your parallelism with your lower border or visual perameter until your imaginary line showing the underside line of price action between X and Y shows up to the right of your 1/4 circle's arc.

What number emerged on your Coffee Filter Arc?
Write your answer here:______________

Number 4-B:
Does your answer to Number 4 match your guesstimate answer to Question Number 3? Write your answer here:__________
If your two answers don't match, then either slide your wedgie again, or improve your initial "guesser" by a few degrees up or down and re-train that squintin' eye of yours!

CONGRATULATIONS!!! You have just drawn your first Trendline and found a pretty solid RULE OF THUMB to buy against in a rising market. [That would be a 22-R degree "trendline." THIS is ALSO a pretty solid RULE OF THUMB to initate a SHORT SELL against in a FALLING market]

Assignment: If price action falls below 22 Degree Trendline, is it a sell signal? Write your answer here:__________________________________________________
[As the 1040-IRS Long Form sez: Feel Free to Grab a clean sheet of paper and write out a detailed answer if you wish.<g>]

Now to Coffee Filter 104 for more Q&A exercises with our graphic and our wedgie.

Time for a reeeeeal coffee, iced tea [no sugar, please] or whatever yer' havin' break. Reconvene yet tonight if you like. Whatcher pleasure, Freeus?

Porcher-ly yours,
O/49r



To: freeus who wrote (19808)5/29/2000 6:52:00 PM
From: IngotWeTrust  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 35685
 
COFFEE FILTER 104
DIRECTED OBSERVATIONS AND ACTIVITIES: [cont'd from Coffee Filter 103 Klatche]
Now let's shift our attention to Visual Aid markings 7 to 8.

At point 7, take your straight edge and pencil and draw a horizontal line, or mentally draw one on the monitor Visual Aid found at cmc.net . Make the line as parallel to your bottom border of your computer monitor or your print-out of said Visual Aid.
This line should basically touch the bottom of the 7 and go through the hash mark at the $100 share price indicator in the righthand Price Indicator axis on your printout. That's close enough for this exercise.

Next, make a notation of some sort, mentally or upon your printout as to where the printout says the spikey hairdo QCOM price "top" is above the $196 horizontal level, so that following this next instruction won't obliterate this top "reference" price point, which we will utilize in a few moments hence.

Now, at the price spike --Marking 8,-- take your straight edge and lengthen the tallest existing spike bar vertically to the top of your printout, making it perpendicular to the previous drawn horizontal line at the base of Marking 7.

Next, at the point of the FIRST price vertical bar touching our very first horizontal line we drew at Marking 7, place your 0 of the Coffee Filter Wedge at THAT beginning point.

Number 5:
What is the arc degree reading from your Coffee Filter Wedge tool where your newly drawn, vertical line extension emerges atop your Wedge arc?
Write your answer here: _____________

HINT:
This "reading in arc degrees" is also known as the Degree of Entropy.

Since it is approx 87-R Degrees,
and since we are trying to be independently alert to warnings of SELLING DIRECTLY AHEAD-TAKE APPROPRIATE PORTFOLIO PRESERVATION ACTION NOW,
this is a true "red blinking lights, bell ringing at the top, buzzer blaring SELL signal, Freeus.

SPOTTING ONE OF THESE DEGREES OF ENTROPY ---in the making or in hindsight--- IS ALWAYS AN UNsustainable price directional movement alert, [whether upwards or downwards], most especially when observed in a short term time frame of reference. "Short term," you query? Yes, even visible ones viewable on as little as 15 minute time axis charts, frankly.

And, in this Visual Aid, we are looking at a WEEKLY Price/Time bar chart, which would fall into the category of an "intermediate time" framework, as opposed to "short-term" for the purposes of this discussion.

Spotting Degree of Entropy price movements, ESPECIALLY in a longer term time frame chart such as represented by this Visual Aid constructed from WEEKLY data, one is also spotting a high statistical probability of there being underway an unsustainable upward price movement, in an intermediate term time frame as well. These Degree of Entropy occurences are to be considered EARLY BELLS for TITANIC SELL/ACTION PLANS EXECUTIONS, Freeus, at whatever your pre-determined trigger point is. [3 trigger points will be drawn in below] In this QCOM Visual Aid, at the time of the upthrust penetration of the $196 per share area, you had almost 10 days to formulate your ACTION PLAN.

I say 10 days, Freeus, because NO ONE you or I are ever likely to meet, sells at THEEEEEE top. I didn't sell at THEEEEE top in Bre-X and neither did most of the people in the stock. But I sold BREX within $3 a share of the top, and did so PRIOR to the blow-off top that occurred within DAYS of my selling into that price rally/strength. [More about my BREX sell later.]

We'll talk more about selecting ACTION PLAN--EXECUTION TRIGGER POINTS a little later, ok? They DO differ for each one viewing historical price data, seeing and hearing INDEPENDENTLY MEASURABLE warning signs, and hearing the "SELL bell ringing at the top" [yes, or the BUY, BABY, BUY!!! bell buzzing at a "bottom."]

Now, let us direct our attention to creating two more horizontal lines, please, which will complete our Second Skillset Objective, ok?

Please draw a horizontal line from the bottom of Marking Y toward the right hand price legend axis of our Visual Aid. Keep in mind, our straight-edge placement is guided by being as parallel to the bottom of our computer monitor or our printout box bottom line as possible.

Number 6:
What is the approximate per share price reading of the intersection between this horizontal line and the righthand vertical axis Price legend?
Write your answer here:___________________

Our last horizontal line drawing assignment is this:
Place your straight-edge at the "spikey-hairdo price top" notation made earlier prior, just above the $196 level. Again, align the straight-edge to be parallel with the bottom of your monitor or your printout. Draw that line from that Marking 8 towards the vertical Price Legend axis on the righthand side of our Visual Aid.

Now, I would like to suggest you mark your 3 horizontally drawn lines in the following manner out to the left of Markings Y, 7, and 8

Marking Y line...please write Support 2.
Marking 7 line...please write Support 1.
Marking 8 line...please write Resistance 2

CONGRATULATIONS, Freeus!!! You have just mastered the second skillset objective I said I'd share: How to identify/draw a price resistance region/band and its opposite: a price support region/band [ref: Coffee Filter 102 Klatche outline.]

Number 7:
Where do you think you should "create" Resistance 1 line on this chart?
Write your answer here:_____________

Number 8:
Do you think the price action bar week ending 5/19/2000 action which extended below Support 1 line is significant?
Write your answer here:__________________________

Is it of a bullish significance or a bearish significance and give a reason(s) for your answer? Write your answer here:_____________________________________________

Our final trendlines which we will now draw are ALSO called "fan lines" and we will create 3 of them.

Please locate Visual Aid Marking 7 and place your Coffee Filter Wedge 0 marking at the prior point where the first vertical price bar touches our hand-drawn horizontal line, now labelled Support 1 from an earlier instruction. Make sure the TIME axis of your Coffee Filter Wedgie is directly atop said horizontal drawn line.

Out to the right of the Coffee Filter Wedge arc, make a dot or hash mark at 67-R, another one at 45-R, and a final one at 22-R degrees of arc.

Now from that 0 point, use your straight-edge to draw a straight "fan line" from that point of 0 beginning to your 67-R hash mark...
...another one from point of 0 beginning to your 45-R hash mark,
...a final one from point of 0 beginning to your 22-R hash mark.

Number 8:
What is the approximate highest share price intersection for 67-R trendline drawn from Marking 7's 0 point? Write your answer here:___________________

Number 8-B:
What is the approximate highest share price intersection for 45-R trendline drawn from Marking 7's 0 point? Write your answer here:___________________

Number 8-C:
What is the approximate highest share price intersection for 22-R trendline drawn from Marking 7's 0 point? Write your answer here:__________________

Number 9:
What was the conclusion in Coffee Filter 103 Klatche about a money management Rule of Thumb activity wrt: a 22-R Trendline indicator?
Write your answer here:_______________________

Number 9-B:
Should a money manager buy at Marking 7's 22-R intermediate trendline? Write your answer and your reasoning here:___________________________________________

Number 10:
If you decided your action should be to NOT BUY, and NOT HOLD but to SELL at penetration of 22-R intermediate trendline/fanline, HOW MANY WEEKS DID YOU HAVE TO ULTIMATELY MAKE YOUR DECISION?
Write your answer here:_____________

[HINT: Each vertical bar represents one week of price action from the $196 per share price penetration to the final 22-R trendline/fan-line pentration.]

ASSIGNMENT
What kinds of decision contribution activities should a money manager be undertaking during those pre-22-R weeks?
A:__________________________________

B:__________________________________

C:__________________________________

D:__________________________________


Klatches now adjourned for some R&R...while I go construct Coffee Filter 105

Porcher-ly yours,
O/49r



To: freeus who wrote (19808)5/29/2000 11:21:00 PM
From: IngotWeTrust  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 35685
 
Answer Checking Time Plus Coffee Filter 105
Freeus, you are to be complimented! You're doing very, very well!
Here are your replies bolded and my responses:italicized

#7: Resistance 1: is it just under $96 near Support 1?
No, ma'am, it is higher than that. Remember, Upward Price Movement CREATED Price Resistance 2, simply by the fact QCOM didn't continue to go higher. Therefore, Resistance 1 would by necessity need to be somewhere near our previously determined Resistance 2 at the $198ish level.

So while you got the direction CORRECT (under Resistance 2), you went down TOO far.

Look at your Visual Aid---Squint at Marking S-2. Just below that are a bunch of little spikey-hairdo vertical sticks. It is my opinion that those horizontal tops of those spikey-hairdo vertical bars = RESISTANCE 1 is just under $164, say at $153ish. So, THAT is where I'd draw a horizontal price resistance line and call it Resistance 1


HINT: In Drawing Support and Resistance Bands: the more "tops of sticks" a horizontal line touches, the more "VALID" that line is, which, in this case is price RESISTANCE. That is another way of saying those stick "tops" are a Rally Price where a flurry of buying activity in a QCOM stock rally failed to penetrate and CLOSE ABOVE 2 out of 3 periods of time, in this example: WEEKS.

#8: Very significant, very bearish price is going down to Support 2. BINGO! YOU NAILED IT, GAL!!!

If one penetrates Support 1 on a closing basis, especially if it is two closes below--out of 3 consecutive periods--- THAT is a SERIOUS SELL Signal.


#8-A: again, I think $164 BINGO! YOU NAILED ANOTHER ONE!!!

The 67-R fanline/trendline highest price intersection is $164!


#8-B: I think $150 SQUINT/DRAW this 45-R bullish fanline/trendline again, please.

The highest price intersection with 45-R is a SECOND TEST of $164 area. See it now?


#8-C: I am feeling stupider and stupider ...$140. Freeus, You're on a EXCELLENT roll here, Gal!!

The highest price intersection with 22-R is approximately $132ish. You said $140...what's $8 between friends!!!<g>

I believe we heard from someone on the porch today who shared with us that they sold out of QCOM at $132. I rejoice with them, as that was THEIR trigger point to sell and they followed through.

I don't remember WHY they picked $132 to sell at, but IT worked and they have been spared an additional 50% haircut plus "Sleepless in Seattle" type nights.


How could I have held on and even bought some leaps?
I don't know, except you can legitimately claim ignorance for your mesmerized inaction back then, Freeus. Nobody had illustrated this stuff to you, remember?

#9 Initiate short sale in a falling market when 22-R is reached[penetrated.] BINGO!!!! NAILED ANOTHER ONE!!! Now, let's do the math, ok?

$198ish is the top.
22-R = $140ish.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Difference=$58 or roughly 29% loss from the high $198 point.

The point is this, Freeus: YOU Get to Calmly, unemotionally, and with time to spare CHOOSE:
IFFFFFFFF
---67-R is your SELL trigger point ($198 minus $164=$34 or 17% haircut);
---45-R is your SELL trigger point ($198 minus $164=$34 or 17% haircut) ---Lookie, you got a second shot at $164...funny how it worked out that way, yes?--, with no additional cost except lost opportunity costs and stress costs);
---22-R is your SELL trigger point ($198 minus $140ish=$54 or 29%).


#10 MANY weeks. 6-8 it looks like; there was no rush.
BINGO, NAILED 'ER AGAIN, GAL! YOU'RE HOT!!!!

When one uses weekly charts to spot KEY CLUES such as Degree of Entropy moves shaping up --in advance,-- or even SPOTS ONE OF THOSE 87-R's IN Bullmarket HINDSIGHT one still "normally" has plenty of cogitation time to observe and, formulate:
an exit or a sell strategy,
write calls,
or buy puts,
or WHATEVER ___________ strategy,
and subsequently discipline themselves to get out of the way of a falling market.

Then evaluation, with banked profits in your case, based upon your GOALS/DREAMS OF GRANDEUR financed by banked profits or whatever is the agenda of the day, is your luxurious pursuit.


What the money manager should be doing:
Not buying!!!!! This chart is broken!
Checking news, checking general market conditions, seriously consider selling the stock and
either going short or staying on the sidelines.

BINGO!!!! You've Pulled an A on this set of Klatches, Freeus!

You continue: And here---at $66-- Same thing?

Well, Freeus, that IS the question for you now that you have made the decision to hang on to this point.

**************
Coffee Filter 105
DIRECTED OBSERVATIONS AND ACTIVITIES

Looking at your Visual Aid: http://www.cmc.net/~hyppo/qwkly.jpg

Number 11:
First of all, how close are you, TONIGHT to SUPPORT 2? Write your answer here:_________________

Number 11-A:
What is the risk/reward ratio of the remaining downside to SUPPORT 2 vs. a return rally to say the 200 Day Moving Average at $99 ish? Write your answer here:____________________

Number 11-B:
So what IS your plan should SUPPORT 2 be penetrated? Write your answer here:________________

Number 11-C:
What is the likelihood you'll have time to make that decision to buy more QCOM or sell out? Write your answer here:______________

Number 11-D:
Rank in the order of your best guess, the time you will have to make your best choice for YOUR risk tolerance level and YOUR risk/reward assessment?
A: Hours?
B: Days?
C: Weeks?
Write your "fastest finger "Who Wants to Be A Millionaire? "order of answers here:__, ____, ___.

Just a few more things to suggest using our Coffee Filter Wedgie for (at least suggestions suitable to use in polite company anyhow<ggg>) before we shift to a more give and take discussion --shortly I hope.

Would you now take your Coffee Filter Wedgie and write in Highlighter or whatever, the world "BULL" on the frontside?

Now, flip it over and let's remake our creases real quickly, and mark the backside as follows: "BEAR"

The 0 Point Marking should now be "upper left" and away from your chest. That horizontal axis, however is STILL Time and should marked that way on this flip side.

The lefthand axis extended downward from 0 toward your chest should still be marked PRICE.

Your arc degree numbers should be backwards now: Upper right of the arc should now say 90
the middle distance between the 90 and the crease should say: 67
the middle crease of the arc should read: 45
the 1/8th arc should say: 22
and a little sliver of space just before true vertical down axis should read 3

Now, place your BEAR 0 MARKING point at the intersection of RESISTANCE 2 at Visual Aid Marking 8 and the vertical extension we drew earlier, up through the top of your Visual Aid:

Now "squint/peer" through your Coffee Filter Wedgie at the price action underneath at Marking S-2 (S-2= my shorthand for "Second Sell" in a market reversal after a Degree of Entropy Identification which became First Sell aka Marking 8).

Number 12:
Using your eyeball squint technique only, what angle of descent arc do you observe Marking S-2 to be? Write your answer here:_______________

Number 12-B:
Same Coffee Filter Wedgie Placement, squinting only: what angle of descent arc do you observe Marking S-3 to be? Write your answer here: ___________

Number 12-C:
Is Marking S-3 steeper, about the same, less steep angle of descent than Marking S-2?? Write your answer here:______________

Assignment:
Go to SI's QCOM chart hyperlink.
Set the periods of time pull down menu by highlighting WEEKLY as your click choice, for as long a period of time as it will permit. Hit enter, and update our Visual Aid to NOW include this past Friday's continued angle of descent.

Number 13:
Placing your Coffee Filter Wedgie BEAR Side 0 point at the first downside touching of horizontal line now known as Support 1, and including Friday's weekly market action data...

Can you visualize a possible a DEGREE OF ENTROPY BLOW OFF to the downside that might be setting up a "BUY" opportunity in QCOM at or near $54ish???
Write your answer here:____________

Now, before we leave Coffee Filter Wedgie Klatches, let me suggest one more "polite" thing to do to your Visual Aid thingies<ggg>...(write on them what changed fundamentally to make the various gyrations higher or lower in the margins of your printout. Then 3 hole punch it and put it into a notebook for future reference when you ask yourself what was going on in QCOM as this story continues to develop.)

The basic of all basic questions, of course, is this:
1. WHY DID YOU BUY QCOM IN THE FIRST PLACE?
2. Has that story/reason/Q* business model changed?

Obviously, this VISUAL AID has graphically depicted "something changed" because that nice, solid 22-R ascending Trendline has been moved away from both to the upside, and certainly recently been penetrated to the downside, around the 200 Day Moving Average.

That's the market place's function...to rally and sag in an attempt to reach equilibrium, the hypothetical midpoint in valuation from "someone's" point of view at least...

Remember, Freeus, this is a Combination Time/Price Coffee Filter Wedgie. It is NO accident that the 22-R ascending trendline intersected the $100 price legend on the righthand side, at about the 200 Day Moving Average "arrived" which is ALSO at the $100 price level.

I'll leave it up to others more skilled in math to explain howcum that works out that way, in this instance and over and over and over again. It is called the squaring of price and time, and there are several "thick books" devoted to discussing ad nauseum this observable phenom and its corollaries.

Since:
A) you know the basic reason why you bought the stock,
B) you NOW know where Support 1 and Support 2 is in QCOM
C) you can see for yourself a basically bull market is still intact in QCOM over a 120 week period (roughly 2.3 years' worth of time)
D) you NOW can see for yourself what your risk/reward ratio is for going down to Support 2 versus a rally back to say, Support 1
E) you NOW can see that a blow-off Degree of Entropy movement is potentially setting up for a buy in QCOM shortly, because the angle of BEAR-ARC descent is steeping,
F) you NOW know you have hours? days? weeks? to make your decision to implement YOUR action plan,
......
Do you NOW "feel" you have some independent tools to assess what is going on and to measure yammer and hype against
"QCOM STORY fundamentals" and "descending price action"
to base YOUR $66 decision upon?

Final Assignment:
Please go back above to where we discussed the 67-R, the 45-R and the 22-R price points were, where you wudda/cudda/shudda sold or executed your SELL strategy. Now you don't have to tell the world, but what percentage of those 400% gains you initially lamented losing would you have been able to RETAIN, had you known what you know now?
Write your answers here:_______________

FREEUS,THE ANSWERS TO THESE 3 PRICE POINT/ARC ANGLE QUESTIONS ARE YOUR HIGHEST MOTIVATION for paying attention in the future to basic trendline formation and support resistance formations,
moving your "Coffee Filter Wedgie" around to identify trendlines within existing longer term trends...
and then EXECUTING YOUR ACTION PLAN in a disciplined fashion, at YOUR trigger points, okay???

That is my hope and why I've shared these 2 basic skill sets with you:
---How to construct Trendlines on a longer term chart of historical price action
---How to construct Horizontal Support and Resistance lines on a longer term chart of historical price action.

Plus,
---I've thrown in the truly obvious and unsustainable price movement BELL RINGING decision maker CLUE--obvious in hindsight, AND potentially dead ahead visible also in "foresight" if one knows what to look for that is:
the famous Degree of Entropy.

You still have your stock,
You still have your questions,
and now you have a new Coffee Filter Wedgie with scritchin's on it, and 3/4 of a coffee filter circle laying around somewhere<g>.

But do you NOW have a plan forming? That's what I hope to learn from this sharing with you.
***********
I'm sure open to discussions and comments now, from you or anyone who isn't snoring loudly on this here porch.

Thank y'all for your kindness and courtesy, with special appreciation to Dealer, Eye Doc and those few who have privately expressed your appreciation and support in PM's during these Klatches. This porch is the absolute greatest!

I'll check back, off and on for the rest of the evening, in case I've mudded the waters so badly, I need to restate or clarify something.

Remember, Freeus, you CORRECTLY NAILED those answers, one after one after one, and nailed 'em GOOD!!

Getcher head up, Gal! The lament season is past and the future is dead ahead. Whatcher Plan and will you do differently now?!!!!!???

Porcher-ly yours, you've simply been a lovely LOVELY woman to dialog with, and I feel so very honored to be graced by your time and honest sharing!!!

O "softy" /49r



To: freeus who wrote (19808)6/1/2000 9:21:00 PM
From: IngotWeTrust  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 35685
 
Did mighty well on your answers again, Freeus. Again, your answers in bold and my responses in italics
Yesterday morning was mighty scary though.
I certainly didn't enjoy the spike down, Freeus but did feel like I was prepared for it, mentally and financially.

Number 11:
At $66 (Fri. 5/26 close) Support 2 was only about $8 or 10 dollars away (down).

BINGO!!! Still on a roll I see!

Number 11A:
The risk was $10 and the reward was about $30 or $33 so a 3 to 1 ratio.

BINGO AGAIN! I've historically found 3:1 ratio of risk to reward plays are always very good to me short OR long-term. I just felt it was important for you to spot a 3:1 play on your own so that you could be on the lookout for them and see if they work out well for you, too.

Number 11B:
Probably should buy more or buy Leaps for '02 or '03, but could I?

Hmmmm... Not exactly what I would have done, but that IS a strategy allright. However, statistically, if Support 2 is penetrated on a down move, it is wise to get out, as the price of any given stock will return all the way DOWN to original basing levels, which in this case is split adjusted $6-8. Please keep this very high statistical probability of 100% retracement in mind if you wish to preserve ANY capital to play another day if Support-2 region/band is violated, ok?

Number 11C:
Maybe not much time to buy this time, if it is lowest support level, perhaps in this order b days, a hours, c weeks.

I see nothing wrong with your answer order. However, I would like to expand your thinking if I may. Human nature being what it is, we have a tendency to think we have very little time when we are A) Scared, B) think it will only be "cheap" for a few minutes. We are culturally inoculated to buy when groceries are on sale...(ever rushed to the Grocery Store late on Tuesday evening before the grocery ads expire at midnight to pick up s'more __________ while it is still on sale?)<g> Like it will kill us to pay "normal price" instead of "garage sale prices" for our _________, (or our stock choice.) We are so afraid of NOT getting the bottom price of a given trading range, one of the hardest things to do is to pay up for a stock "once the train has left the station"

Some technicians want to wait for
... "put/call ratios to hit historic negativities before buying,",
...for institutional money to "show up on Thompsons Watch",
...for retail money to get in /get out...depending upon perspective,
...for buy volume to swell to 5:1 over sell volume type days signalling THEEEEE bottom, ad nauseum.


The filter was looking a little peaked so I cut another for the bear. I'm not sure I have it placed correctly however.

Number 12: 45 [degrees?]

BINGO!!! Interesting that a 45% trendline shows up so plainly on a BEAR sell-off. Now do you understand why some shorts on this and other Q involved threads were so confident about placing on their short positions?? Buying against a 45-R UP TRENDLINE, and initiating selling/short strategies against a 45-DOWN TRENDLINE are pretty much "carved in stone" safe bets, (if there is such a thing as "safe") strategies in bull and bear markets. MANY such instances of profitable entry and exits from initiating positions at 45-R (Bull) and 45 (Bear) trendlines IN LONGER TERM TIME FRAME Visual Aid perspectives are viewable if you would just take the time to make this a part of your knowledge base.

Number 12B: 22?
BINGO! Nailed another one. 22 Degree DECLINE is NOT friendly on the BEAR side of Coffee Filter Wedgie degree of arc. It is only friendly on the BULL side of your "wedgie." It is DEFINITELY NOT a sustainable sell trendline in a bearish sell-off.

Number 12C: a little less steep.
Woops, I believe you need to check again on this one.
From 8 on the top, which marks Resistance 2 because the rally abruptly stopped in the Degree of Entropy climax, please re-draw the line from 8 to S-2 and beyond....you will find it to be about 45 Degress as you correctly asserted earlier.

However, if you would draw a second "bearish fanline" from Marking 8 to Marking S-3, you would find it a STEEPER rate of descent than the 8 to S-2 descent. Another way to visualize it is put yourself into an SUV of your choosing. Now visualize the difficulty driving back up a 45 degree trendline descending from 8 to S-2. Now visualize the increased degree of difficulty making the drive back up the 22 degree trendline descending from 8 to S-3 The steeper the descent, the less likely you will be to keep your SUV on the road back up to the top.


Number 13:
Again yes I can see a "buying opp" but don't know if would have the oomph to buy at that point: certainly should not sell though, I agree.

Actually, I was quite pleased at your cautious answer.
For one thing, I would hope you would reality check any anticipated buy desires which would surface against a Degree of Entropy blow-off set-up to the downside in such a solid company, no matter how much "advance notice" the charts give you in your order of Days, hours, weeks:
Check current price against Long Term Moving Averages.
Check Interest Rate climactic changes since last time stock price was in this area,
Check for Fundamental news change that is verifiable by a simple phonecall to the company,, etc.
Check risk reward ratio of Support zone pricing potential
vs. current "bargain buy price" urges!

Of course, I bought QCOM originally because I believe it is a market leader and a future (maybe even current) enormous revenue and cash stream. Agreed. Me, too!
The story has not changed although the news seems to want to trash it big time!!!!!
Again, we agree.
However, Freeus, I tend to "weight more heavily" utterances by the fiduciarily responsible COMPANY spokesperson, than some unaccountable "analyst" or "news source quoted on Reuters that is NON-company."

When was the last time you participated in a class action lawsuit against an Analyst? Remember how it ended? The BREX accountability is still ongoing, and Enzio Bianchi or however you spell his name, just lost his job and went to work as an analyst somewhere else in Canada, and kept his client's commission money, plus his own speculative winnings on playing his inside information on BREX like a master concerto arteeest. However, if you think ANYONE who remembers ENZIO's name is going to believe what Enzio says about a gold mining stock after BREX, you are sadly mistaken.

Ditto this knucklehead "Lehman Luke" with the loose lips who flushed out several 2-3 million share blocks of QCOM stock with his pre-Unicom FUD utterances last week, at/near the bottom last week, Monday. He has unwisely advised in 2 prior instances acc'd to threadmates here on SI, and it looks like he's just hit the "hat trick" of 3 for lousy analyses with his QCOM call. Look for him to be employed elsewhere shortly. Rest assured, SI'ers have long, verifiable memories. Luke's reputation will go with him!


Your C makes me smile: does anyone have a 2.3 year time frame these days????
"Welp, young lady," sez I in my best John Wayne imitation, "a Yup, I have me a 2.3 year time frame, ma'am! In fact if truth be told, it's more more than a tad longer than that. But I'm always happy to make you smile, little lady!!!
You'd be surprised, Freeus, how many of us use weekly charts of such lengths, frankly to check our work and check out our assumptions. Even Ole CNBC shows 52 week charts mostly, but that's better than 15 MINUTE, "long-term, daytrader charts," Now there's folk with REEEEEEEAL WEDGIES, Missy."<ggg>


Actually I will tell the world because I think people should be aware of the danger:
Had I used the Resistance levels to write covered calls (I would not have wanted to sell the stock) or buy puts, I could have saved at least 80% of the gains I had
and perhaps more:

the support was so much lower than the price that it would have been prudent to be cautious.

And tell the world you did, Freeus! In fact, I read earlier this week that you told the world that you would have executed at 15% if you had it to do over again. And some smart-aleck pointed out you didn't qualify your answer as to when you would have done so.

But you and most other porchers knew you were speaking within the contextual frame of our discussions, after an obvious Degree of Entropy buy exhaustion move had taken place, and not from the early "are they?/aren't they?" frame of reference that party tried to twist your words into meaning. I was pleased to see you, publically, stick by your guns and not be distracted by such attempts at "picayune porch positing."


Which leads me to my questions:
1: Time is a very important factor, isn't it?

ANS:
Yes, extremely so!

2) IOW, if a stock goes from $100 to $200 in a year, it's a lot stronger at that price than if it goes from $100 to $200 in a couple of weeks?
ANS:
YES! YES!! YESSSSSS!!! That is why the Coffee Filter Wedgie Degrees of ARC on trendlines is such a USEFUL tool. The Degree of Entropy movement is just EXACTLY what you described, and why one must ALWAYS be on the look-out for it, be alert to, and be prepared to take advantage of by selling into that strength when it occurs, especially when viewable, IN ADVANCE OF ITS ARRIVAL by looking at a Weekly, or Monthly chart!!!!!!

I must have instinctively known that and that's why I sat down at my computer on the first day of the market year to sell my options, though I didn't go through with it.
ANS:
Guard that instinct, Freeus. "Too much/too soon" is a TRUTH in many areas of our life. "Too much, too soon" phenom leads people into instant gratification (not always good) such as when lottery winners are 'created', or teen-agers demand the car before the responsibility is earned. Instant parting of money from senior citizens or other vulnerable groups, instant romances not necessary making for great long-term relationships, and advisability against get rich quick schemes all fall into that "instinct category" FWISA!

When something is TRUE, which you are calling "instinct" it will be true, regardless of the field of application! Thank the Power of Createdness for such an instinct. Cultivate it. Nurture it. Empower it by other re-enforcing skillsets such as we've visited about. But, PAY attention to that resonance, gal!

Too easy for people who have just bought in the last week to unload at the slightest tremble of price.
ANS:
Agreed.

Also: do you not take the market into account during the evaluation of what to do?
ANS:
No, not really. The market is a market of STOCKs I'm not buying a basket of equities, ever. That is NOT my focus or goal. I'm buying ONE issue or concentrating in one category killer in one sector, such as QCOM, CMGI, JDSU, etc.

If foolish people hand over the QCOM keys to the financial kingdom I'm wanting to build for me and mine, then I'll thank the "preponderance of foolishness" and load up. My problem is this: I want to send out thank you notes for these gilded opportunities. I just don't know whose shares I've bought and to whom to address the Thank You note!

Look at the chart of the Naz (and the Dow to some extent ,too): it's been horribly bearish itself since late March.
But I admit, longer view, even the Naz in in an uptrend.

ANS:
It's fun to hear you talk to yourself and to come out with a longer timeframe for evaluating bearishness, etc. I like that.

Truth be told, March EVERY YEAR has been a "stock market problem" for about the last 15 yrs that I can recall. Something about tax time just hits folks the wrong way, especially if NO planning has occured to make that payment "more convenient and less confiscatory." I must admit, I knew MORE Josh and Josie Schmoos from Kokomo IN who had to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes this past spring than I've ever known in the last 15 years of my existance.

Something I said earlier in our visits about planning for being wealthy and how totally unequipped we are either by upbringing or emotionally for such a challenge comes to my mind just now. Please, not only take this opportunity to KNOW why you're "holdin' instead o'foldin'", but PLEASE, PLEASE, PUULEEZE figure out and plan for being wealthy this next go round! Don't just throw together some mulligan stew "oooopps, guess what? I've just made a lot of money" last minute cobbled together plan, ok?

Just think where you'd be if you had a plan for being WEALTHY into which you had put as much time thinking and plotting for as you have surfing the net for the next category killer investment or dreaming those wonderful long term dreams of yours? Staggering consideration, yes??

I've got some ideas on that topic, and I'd like to learn from others who have planned for becoming wealthy and have executed rather well, extremely well, beyond their wildest dreams well. Maybe we porchers could explore that sometime....

Then you'll get that house, that car, that education, that early retirement, that Olympic training and that Libertarian party financing done and move on to the next big challenge...which of course is "doing it again to prove it wasn't an accidental "wedgie" the first time<g>!

OK no more laments, (I hope).
DEAL!!!

All the best. I look forward to more visits in the future.

( I sure do agree with John about enjoying "porchin'" )
O/49r



To: freeus who wrote (19808)6/4/2000 1:45:00 PM
From: IngotWeTrust  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 35685
 
CORRECTION: Coffee Filter 105--BEAR arc markings.

Freeus wrote: The filter was looking a little peaked so I cut another for the bear. I'm not sure I have it placed correctly however.

Number 12: 45 [degrees]?

BINGO!!! Interesting that a 45% trendline shows up so plainly on a BEAR sell-off. Now do you understand why some shorts on this and other QCOM involved threads were so confident about putting on their short positions?? Selling/initiating short strategies against a 45 down TRENDLINE, and buying initiating long strategies against a 45-R UP TRENDLINE are pretty much "carved in stone" safe bets, (if there is such a thing as "safe") strategies in bull AND bear markets. MANY such instances of profitable entry and exits from initiating positions at 45-R (Bull) and 45 (Bear) trendlines IN LONGER TERM TIME FRAME Visual Aid perspectives are viewable if you would just take the time to make this a part of your knowledge base.

Your Response to Number 12B: 22[degrees]?
CORRECTION HERE!!: Freeus, we have an arc numbering error here. I failed to catch it sooner. I'm so sorry! Please cut and paste/scotch tape this correction into/or literally onto the offending paragraph in original Coffee Filter 105, thank you.

NEW, CORRECTED BEAR Wedge Arc Markings are as follows:
Just as in our BULL market placement Wedge, where TIME axis = 0 degrees, so by inverting the Wedge placement, i.e., flipping it over to the "BEAR" side, TIME is STILL ZERO degrees, even tho' the BEAR TIME AXIS is now parallel to the TOP of your Visual Aid or computer monitor border.

The correct answer to directed observation Number 12B: is: 67 Degrees of Bearish Arc.

Number 12B: which originally reads:
Same [Bearish] Coffee Filter Wedgie Placement, and squinting only: what angle of descent do you observe Visual Aid Marking from Marking 8 to Marking S-3 to be? Write your answer here:____________

CORRECTED REPLY: A 67 Degree of DECLINE is NOT friendly on the BEAR side of Coffee Filter Wedgie degree of arc. It is Equally a potential area of ascending price resistance on the BULL side of your wedge. 67 arc degrees is DEFINITELY NOT a sustainable sell trendline in a bearish sell-off.

Truth IS: A great MANY additional short positions are initiated on the 22 Bear Arc Degrees, which would be the first descending arc measurement from the top BEAR TIME AXIS to the 45 Degree Crease on your Bear Coffee Filter Wedge Placement exercise.


SECOND CORRECTION: Where the 22 Degree of Arc was originally typed in the following answer, please replace that with the 67 Degree of Arc correction Below, Freeus.

Your Answer in Bold: Number 12C: a little less steep.
My response in italics: Woops, I believe you need to check again on this one.
From 8 on the top, which marks Resistance 2 because the rally abruptly stopped in the Degree of Entropy climax, please re-draw the line from 8 to S-2 and beyond....you will find it to be about 45 Degrees as you correctly asserted earlier.

However, if you would draw a second "bearish fanline" from Marking 8 to Marking S-3, you would find it a STEEPER rate of descent than the 8 to S-2 descent. Another way to visualize it is put yourself into an SUV of your choosing. Now visualize the difficulty driving back up a 45 degree trendline descending from 8 to S-2. Driving back up that 45 Degree downtrend fanline would be quite doable.

Now visualize the increased degree of difficulty making the drive back up the CORRECTED 67 degree trendline descending from 8 to S-3 The steeper the descent, the less likely you will be to keep your SUV on the 67 Degree Downtrend fanline "road" back up to the top.

Again, My apologies, Freeus, for making that Bear TIME Axis the wrong arc degrees of Marking. RE-mark the "upside down" now, BEAR-TIME axis as ZERO degrees and we'll be on the same "Coffee Filter Wedge" again.

Please grace me with your kindness: I'm claiming temporary heat stroke, and gold glare in my eyes, as my excuses....<g>,

Porcher-ly yours,
O/49r