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Politics : About that Cuban boy, Elian -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: greenspirit who wrote (6059)	5/23/2000 4:34:00 PM
From: Rambi	Respond to of 9127

Thanks, Michael, I would so much rather read what you think than newsmax! Here are my thoughts on your thoughts. 1. I don't think you'll get any argument around here about the best scenario being Elian and dad together in the good ol' USA- well, not from me, but that's not gonna happen, and I would be more uncomfortable with a decision to separate them, than with sending them together to Cuba. I think the precedent set would be catastrophic. I'm not sure how keeping them both here could have occurred "gracefully" without providing Castro with more means to stir up hatred against us. Castro is the BIG winner in this one, and Clinton played into his hands. (I understand that graceful shouldn't enter into it, but it of course does.) 2. While I agree with the statement that no one knows what Juan wants in reality, I think that the strong reaction here of "His father wants him in Cuba" is more the assertion that this is the information we have, this is what he says, than it is proclaiming Juan's deepest wishes with certainty. What else do we have to go on? There are two or three here who feel that Juan should have no say at all, and would sever the relationship completely for ideological reasons. this is problematic for some of us. 3. The verdict is still out on the Justice Dept's actions. I too believe that this was poorly handled, but I didn't believe that these were innocent "law-abiding citizens" by the time the raid happened. The legal issues are not nearly that simple with regard to jurisdiction and precedencce and I will wait for the legal minds to sort through this one. I did think once JUan was here and they were ordered to turn over Elian and refused in violation of a direct order, that they had to know they were going head to head with the government and it was a risky business. I think too that they were puppets. I don't trust the inflammatory newsmax or AIM any more than you trust the mainstream media. They have just as much of a political agenda and bias. They are just as guilty of attempting to whip people into a frenzy on their side by presenting slanted facts. Oh- I think this is the first time I heard that there was a promise the home would not be broken into. Is there a record of this? The stories re: the status of the negotiations have been totally incompatible. And frankly, the thought that the relatives had the RIGHT to negotiate hits me wrong. Returning a small child to his sole surviving parent should have occurred immediately. THere was nothing healthy or stabilizing in the Miami home by this point. I wonder if there aren't tapes of every conversation between the gov't and the relatives somewhere. That would be interesting listening. 5. I'm not sure what this one means. As you know, I am no Clinton lover and will breathe a huge sigh of relief when he is gone. (Unless Gore is in.)

To: greenspirit who wrote (6059)	5/23/2000 4:38:00 PM
From: marcos	Respond to of 9127

Michael, if i thought Juan Miguel didn't really want Eli n with him i would change my position here in a minute ... well, that wouldn't be a change, actually, since it is my position that as the father JM should make the decisions for his minor son regardless of the desires of politicians of all stripes. But i don't see evidence of JM wanting anything other than what he states ... early on, according to a New York Times piece some weeks ago, he wanted his son back ... this was as soon as he found out that Elisabet had been lost, and before contact with his government, i believe. No question that state compulsion exists in Cuba ... not all object to that, though ... and to the best of my reckoning, on admittedly limited evidence, i think Juan prefers Cuba .... if you see any evidence [not speculation - evidence] to the contrary, i'd appreciate hearing it .... cheers ps - as for the INS raid - it's not the first i've heard of, nor the most brutal, and it ended with the child safely with the father ... their raids have produced less happy results with other families