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To: Seeker of Truth who wrote (5204)	6/2/2000 5:07:00 AM
From: TobagoJack	Respond to of 6018

Malcolm, your statements will not be popular. But hey, that is the neat nature of i.net and e.com. Your definition of quasi-democracy is the one I meant. I have always maintained with my US friends and my US mom (she voted for Clinton because he has a nice face, but she now laughs out loud and believes Clinton is comically nuts, as are Mr. Bean and Hugh Grant) that the US folks have rights while we in Hong Kong with Trinidad passport and moderate sized wallet have freedom. However, we can not influence policy nor are we inclined to, as we are too busy doing more fun things that freedom allows. This is not socially responsible and certainly not historically relevant, but then Hong Kong is such a small place with rock for resources and shoppers for talent. We do not have to be responsible, we only need to show the world how to have fun. We shelter folks who bought the ex-Soviet aircraft carrier and are busy turning it into a Casino. We also shelter people who at one time arranged to buy some islands from the governor of Sakhalin for building a wild party palace. We, in the last 48 hours, have talked about Softbank, money, bombs, espionage, people thrown out of windows, politics, democracy, Taiwan, geography. We have only skipped sex. Otherwise this thread has all. Great thread.

To: Seeker of Truth who wrote (5204)	6/2/2000 12:26:00 PM
From: badon518	Respond to of 6018

malcolm i think you're right that the little guy can't influence national policy. mathematically, it makes some sense because hundreds of millions of littly guys can't really coalesce the nuances necessary for national policy. at the local level, however, the little guy is king. i can personally attest to sound policy decisions trashed because of one "little guy" opposing them. the whole us phenonomena of nimby and nope and cave are testament to the power of the little guy.

To: Seeker of Truth who wrote (5204)	6/2/2000 12:34:00 PM
From: manohar kanuri	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 6018

Spot on about quasi-democracy! There was that news item about a young woman in the UK who was flunked at the interview for Magdalen College for the egregious error of being from the wrong class, and then won a hefty grant to go to Harvard. This goes back to Jay's comment about who runs China -- some genuinely good people, some thugs and a third group I don't recall now. Framed thus, the so-called democracies of Asia and Europe fit that description quite nicely. The Chinese thug aspires to a place on the Politburo, the British thug aims for a knighthood. Fact remains, the average Jane/Joe born on the "wrong" side of the tracks has a higher probability of translating their political and legal rights into social and material advancement in the US than in older societies. If we take obstacles on the road to advancement as the benchmark, I'm not sure "democratic" France, UK or India have that much of an edge over communist China. The first three are not as egalitarian as they might like to be because their entrenched systems of privilege simply evolved and adapted to a democratic mould. I'm willing to hazard the guess that China, having dismantled those systems and moved right along for a couple of generations, will wind up being much more egalitarian when it goes democratic than most other countries. In some senses it probably is already. Putting aside value judgements about the nature of the system itself, the average American or the average Chinese who is willing to follow the rules of the system is not handicapped, like the average Indian or Brit, by the facts of birth, class and caste. I suppose one can talk about egalitarian communism or capitalism on the one hand, and feudal bourgeoisies struggling to be egalitarian democracies on the other. "..... Whose spurred feet have crossed From left to right the blank page of the road? Reading from left to right in winter's code: A dot, an arrow pointing back; repeat: Dot, arrow pointing back ... A pheasant's feet! Torquated beauty, sublimated grouse Finding your China right behind my house. Was he in Sherlock Holmes, the fellow whose Tracks pointed back when he reversed his shoes?" Certain gentlemen formerly of Cornell, if no one else, should recognize that quote. :) yep, gotta love this thread....no vulgar thread police bludgeoning all interesting conversation out of it! mk