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To: Smartypts who wrote (776)	7/5/2000 3:39:59 PM
From: Smartypts	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1766

For example KEI. Now obviously it took sellers to bring this down and buyers to bring it up. I just can't see a market maker sitting there manipulating a price on this. I don't get it.

To: Smartypts who wrote (776)	7/5/2000 4:59:46 PM
From: RockyBalboa	Respond to of 1766

. I read an article in Briefing and another place that states market makers can’t manipulate a stock price Well... they can and they do, regularly in both directions. But it is hard to distinct between "making a market" (in providing liquidity) and abusing the own role as a or more market makers... Running stops for example is manipulation... or going out of the way and make a stock plummeting if one big fund is selling is also a very special way to make markets. Very often connected with showing nominal bids and refusing to take sell orders via snet... then sitting on buy orders and filling them arbitrarily... ... or shorting a stock (hence abusing the term "providing liquidity") and walking it down until buying pressure finally subsedes... and many more. ...or, the other way round... if they decide to take the stock to a journey, then you cannot buy the stock... until it reached its terminal price...but then All IMO....

To: Smartypts who wrote (776)	7/5/2000 5:00:57 PM
From: Pluvia	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 1766

Re: MM manip of various stocks... MM manips these days generally require tight float stocks or large capitalized firms, or both. These days liquid stocks trading hi volume are really impossible for most MM's to manip. Jon Q public and ECN's grew bigger and stronger than MM's... Many of the manips I see are tight float with buying being directed to the MM who is running the manip so he does not have to carry the entire weight of what's thrown at him on the bid. There are many manip tricks by small firms. For example a guy wants to halt a drop in a fast market - he'll jump on the bid and refuse to answer the phone. The bid won't go away till he drops. Since he's not answering his phone he's not buying stock... If he's lucky, guys watching L2 see the bid stop dropping, so they jump ahead of him on the bid and buy... etc etc... Same trick in reverse works to slow a stock from running too high... There are a ton of MM tricks, you trade better if you know the tricks and read the game... Hope that helps at - least a little...