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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: one_less who wrote (84745)	8/3/2000 5:13:45 PM
From: Frederick Smart	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Forgiveness 101...... >>I know that I am going to be sorry, again, for reentering this but here goes...one more try. It really bothers me to see people misapply the term forgiveness. What I consider my greatest strengths or virtues, may be the very things you are racing around to forgive me for. To forgive me for things that I value and nurture in my character is very annoying and in fact anger producing. People deserve to be forgiven the things for which they are experiencing remorse and attempting to correct....period. To withhold forgiveness in these situations is destructive of your self and others. Think about the difference FS. Once again to go around forgiving everyone for everything is not meaningless...it is less than that, it is negative in that it discounts forgiveness for things that are truly offenses. It also reeeeeeks of self righteousness.>> Clean slate. Period. It's about forgeting/negating anything I or you or anything anyone else may have thought, said, did, etc. It's about NOW. Timelessness. Our spirit. Keep whatever character you want to keep, nurse or whatever. This doesn't have to change. It's up to you. You have the power. You have the free will. It's as if you, I or anyone created this great big dam through the expenditure of a lot of time, energy, resources and money. We are proud of this dam. It may even throw off some money in the form of electricity. There may be boaters who pay daily/weekly launch fees, concessions, etc. Unbeknownst to all the other boaters who have spent there lives boating behind this one dam, now there may be this ONE little boater who tells the others about this great place downstream where there's Ok entertainment and good food, but where the water continues to flow smoothly for miles and miles in both directions which lead to other lakes and rivers, etc. It's up to each of us to find our own personal rivers of energy, joy, light and happiness. The best we can do is simply invite people from the backs of these dams or who may be sitting on the shoreline to jump in and have fun. Forget about what I say or where I go. I just want others to float freely, unrestricted, etc. Many individuals treat religions as safe/strong dams to hide behind from the evils of the world in the middle of the river of life. And these dams tend to mirror our personal/collective fears. I'd much rather view true ministry as being personal, free and open. We are not to build dams. We are to show people these open rivers of energy and trust which everyone can get into the same current while being free to go left, right, backwards and forwards. The river and water are powerful metaphors. Walking into the river is symbolic of embracing the current and essence of real life. Water flows. It knows no restrictions, barriers, limits, etc. Water has no beginning and no end. And there's real energy in this flow and in the dynamic weather changes which evaporate water and create clouds from which condense rain. So back to forgiveness. Self righteous? There's nothing I can ever claim to be self-righteous about. I am one person with feelings, ideas and some inspired energy which I freely share in formums like this. I forgive myself and others for feeling self-righteous. If you feel I'm self righteous, take ownership over that feeling. There is nothing I can do to reverse what you felt, but I will forgive you for feeling I am somehow "wrong" for coming across as self-righteous. Peace. ...........

To: one_less who wrote (84745)	8/3/2000 7:19:16 PM
From: Rambi	Respond to of 108807

brees-- I am reading all this with interest- but am staying clear of the "deep" discussion-- for many reasons. However, I laughed so at your post because it reminded me of my mother, a devout and exceptionally strong Christian woman, who was incensed by people saying , "I'll pray for you", if they thought someone was wrong or out of line. She found it condescending and arrogant, a way of saying "You;re just wrong and I am a better person". When she was dying, which took quite a bit of time and a great deal of suffering but offered many hours for us to share and talk, she said, "I wish I knew for sure that Christianity was real." It surprised me a lot, because she really had never faltered once (that I knew of) in her beliefs for 77 years. When the minister came by for her weekly visit, Mother asked her, "Can you guarantee me that there is a God?" And the young minister, to her credit, said, "No, Marion, I can't. That's what faith is about." And my wonderful mother said with a sniff, "You have no idea how much harder it is to believe that now than it was when I was in control." I watched both my parents die, and many old people in my work with the elderly, and I don't believe that Chris L. has a clue about what it means- at least when it comes to painful and horrible drawn out deaths. He makes it sound like a Hallmark card.