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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: combjelly who wrote (122612)	8/21/2000 3:17:16 PM
From: Daniel Schuh	Respond to of 1571366

Because of that, we really don't know what is required to shift the balance. Can a butterfly flapping it's wings in Brazil affect the weather in the US? A totally runaway greenhouse effect is probably not possible. Er, isn't that a bit contradictory? Just to add a random bit of information to the "5 years ago in Nature" style discussion, here's a piece on my favorite little kicker in all of this, thermohaline circulation. Arctic Thawing May Jolt Sea's Climate Belt nytimes.com Buried in there, some recent information on the random current fluctuations that happened to have opened up the North Pole ice just now: Could an influx of fresh water brought about by global warming make that happen again? Recent studies lend the question new urgency. In one, reported in the December issue of the journal Geophysical Research Letters, scientists analyzed data collected by sonar aboard nuclear submarines and found that the floating ice cover of the Arctic Ocean has become about 40 percent thinner than it was two to four decades ago. In another, reported in the current issue of the journal Science, researchers led by Dr. Ola M. Johannessen of the Nansen Environmental and Remote Sensing Center in Bergen, Norway, used satellite data to measure the area of the Arctic ice sheet. They found that the perennial ice cover had shrunk by 14 percent over the last two decades. The third study, by nine researchers headed by Dr. Konstantin Y. Vinnikov of the University of Maryland, analyzed data from five different sources and found that sea ice in the Northern Hemisphere as a whole had decreased by about 7 percent in the last 46 years. No sense worrying about it, though. With all people out there hard at work discounting every individual piece of evidence, who cares about the big picture? I recommend that everybody here who doesn't believe global warming is happening sign the petition at oism.org. That way, the next time the Wall Street Journal does an editorial page article "debunking" global warming, your voice will be counted among the "scientists" too. Cheers, Dan.

To: combjelly who wrote (122612)	8/21/2000 3:34:09 PM
From: manfredhasler	Respond to of 1571366

combjelly, Re: ... anecdotal evidence is that we have had greater extremes, winters are often colder, summers are hotter, and that may not shift the average very much. For what it is worth, this is the type of behavior that you expect from a chaotic system that is shifting from one attractor to another, but it also is within the normal variability of the climate.... And this does tie in with the price of AMD. A more chaotic system, totally immune to anything like rational modelling, is hard to imagine... I never thought to add to OT discussions. But since you managed to come back to AMD ... I like this kind of exchange of thoughts and ideas ... being attracted by the way it can be expressed. Regards, Manfred

To: combjelly who wrote (122612)	8/21/2000 4:02:20 PM
From: Scumbria	Respond to of 1571366

Comb, A very good indication of climactic change is the amount of snowfall at worldwide ski areas. The only problems with this study would be that resorts exaggerate their snowpack to attract customers, and they manufacture snow to produce marginal skiing on a few lousy slopes, to keep the tourists happy. Scumbria