To: TigerPaw who wrote (731 ) 9/7/2000 3:59:59 PM From: Solon Respond to of 28931 This is why a pantheistic model suits me. For me, the idea of life after death for eternity , under one body/ego identity and memory, is obscene. Also, the idea of living without meaningful choices (i.e. choices that can result in failure, pain, or death) is childlish and abhorrent. The idea of rebirth is attractive, but, as it would not require any memory of previous ego/identity, the idea of God really does not inform it in any way. In any practical sense, therefore, rebirth is a given. The idea that ANY form or construct should retain identity forever is absurd. In terms of the possibility that something (lets call it "spirit") is the Ultimate Reality, and that it simply expresses itself from energy to matter--this may well be. I don't think the idea of a sentient Universe is any more preposterous than any other rationale for the Universe. Indeed, I think it somewhat more likely, which is why I enjoy discussing these matters. However, it is not because I think (or would want) my own silly conceits to exist for eternity. And my teeth are not going to gnash forever. They will be vitamin pills. And my body will be tomatoes to feed believers and non believers alike. This will be the end of me...and the beginning of everything else ... <ggg>. The barbaric God that ate dinner with primitive Man in the Sinai desert and planned strategy of warfare, will not be torturing Solon... :) One of my favorite people--Lucretius: "Globed From The Atoms" Globed from the atoms falling slow or swift I see the suns, I see the systems live Their forms; and even the systems and the suns Shall go back slowly to the eternal drift. Even if there lurk behind some veil of sky The fabled Maker, the immortal Spy, Ready to torture each poor life he made, Thou canst do more than God can -- thou canst die. For I, if still you are haunted by the fear Of hell, have one more secret for your ear. Hell & its torments are not there, but are here. By Lucretius