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To: abstract who wrote (681)	9/12/2000 5:14:17 PM
From: Clappy	Respond to of 65232

Hi Abstract. That was excellent! Thanks. -Clappy

To: abstract who wrote (681)	9/12/2000 7:54:23 PM
From: Voltaire	Respond to of 65232

Thanks abstract. Interesting. V

To: abstract who wrote (681)	9/13/2000 1:06:57 AM
From: Dr. David Gleitman	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 65232

Hi Abstract; The first "living" couple to be shown laying in the same bed was Herman and Lillian Munster in 1962 (or was it 1964). I just couldn't leave well enough alone and had to add to the list. David

To: abstract who wrote (681)	9/14/2000 1:02:47 AM
From: StockHawk	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 65232

for those interested in folklore an urban legends, the real story about "Ring around the Rosie" 2. Why do people think "Ring around the Rosie" is about the bubonic plague? People think "Ring around the Rosie" is about the bubonic plague because they were told so, probably in school. They support this belief by interpreting the poem as follows (generally speaking): "Ring around the rosie" A plague buboe appears on someone's cheek "A pocket full of posies" A popular way of fending off the plague "Atischoo, atischoo" Sneezing was an early sign of plague infection [not true of bubonic plague, incidentally--but see Martin Gilbert's note on pneumonic plague] or "Ashes, ashes" The bodies of plague victims were cremated [also not true], or a reference to the Burial of the Dead ("Ashes to ashes, dust to dust") or "Husha, husha" Trickier to interpret: usually "be quiet, he's about to die." "We all fall down" We all die (like, duh) 3. Sounds good. What's wrong with it? Two things. First, the rhyme's not old enough. Second, the early versions are clearly not about the plague. The earliest printed source for the rhyme dates from 1881. A folklore book published in 1883 claims that versions of the rhyme were circulating in Massachusetts in 1790, but no printed evidence is available. This earlier date is 125 years after the last major plague of the English-speaking world, and roughly 450 years after the Black Death, the 14th century plague most commonly associated with the poem. Furthermore, as the variations page demonstrates, most early versions of the rhyme would be extremely difficult to interpret as references to the plague. Folklorists have come up with far more plausible explanations for the origins of the rhyme: see the answer to Question 8, below. 4. Just because it wasn't written down doesn't mean that it didn't exist, does it? In this case it probably does. Folklorists and antiquarians have been collecting popular rhymes, games and pastimes for at least 300 years. It's hard to believe that "Ring around the Rosie" somehow escaped their attention. 5. Well, this seems pretty weak to me. I still think it's about the plague. You're welcome to your delusions, but please air them elsewhere. Given the evidence at hand, in order to believe in the plague interpretation you must follow one of two lines of logic: a) Created in 1665 (or, better still, in 1340), the rhyme quickly went underground: for over 100 years (or 450 years) no one would dare mention it in public. Then, suddenly, it wasn't a secret anymore. b) In the late 18th century a group of Americans thought it would be neat to invent a rhyming game that was filled with references to disgusting aspects of an ancient epidemic in a foreign country. ualberta.ca If you want to travel down one of these roads, be my guest.