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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: O'Hara who wrote (31478)9/21/2000 3:09:40 AM
From: Jamey  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 39621
 
Shalom, although I believe in the "Reformed" view of predestination, I will at this point only do so in fear that I could be wrong and thus preach the Word of God incorrectly. I pray that you feel this same fear when you question absolutely the belief of Calvanism.

I do know this. If it pleases God to save some and not all there is nothing wrong with that. God is under NO obligation to save anybody. The Bible insists that it is God's divine perogative to have mercy upon whom he will have mercy. God does not treat all men equally. All men are guilty in the sight of God. God sovereignly decides to give mercy to some of us. WHat do the rest get? They get justice.The saved get mercy and the unsaved gets justice.

God is not obligated to be merciful. He reserves the right to be merciful upon whom he will be merciful.

Romans 8
"29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth."

Romans 9
"6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. 9For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son. 10And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; 11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy. 17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?"

Our election is not based on on our wills but on the purposes of the will of God.

Some references to "Chosen By God" by RC Sproul.

If God is indeed Sovereign(which he is) then nothing happens outside his foreknowledge and control. God did indeed foreordain who would be his elect and who would receive his justice. You see, NO ONE can resist the call of the Holy Spirit. The call of GRACE is undeniably too strong for any human to withstand should he be one of God's "Elect."

All I have time for this morning, Shalom. You may if you wish, research these sources that concur with the "Reformed" view.

St Augustine
St Thomas Aquinas
Martin Luther
John Calvin
Jonathan Edwards

We cannot dismiss the Reformed view as simply a Presbyterian thing, now can we?

James



To: O'Hara who wrote (31478)9/21/2000 8:05:47 AM
From: HighTech  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 39621
 
I dare say Greg one who believes this limited atonement doctrine thinks of himself as a privileged character. What else can he think within his heart? It is by the nature of its application a special privilege indeed!
This doctrine carelessly and without merit judges God himself.


Doesn't Spurgeon, a Calvinist believe this?

HiTech