Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Strategies & Market Trends : VOLTAIRE'S PORCH-MODERATED -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Voltaire who wrote (5066)	10/2/2000 8:15:31 PM
From: horsegirl48	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 65232

Volt you talking about horses? You know Arabians used to compand alot of money then it was Thoroughbreds and today the horse of choice is a warmblood. All the rich ladies at the barn want a big warmblood! A few years ago the warmblood was nothing more than a work horse and today in the horse world it commands the biggest money. Things change but I bet you next year Arabians will come back strong, because they r good solid horses and they can do dressage too, if you give em half the chance. And I bet when all those ladies r tired of falling off their 17 hand warmbloods a short but sweet Arabian will look mighty good. Hg48

To: Voltaire who wrote (5066)	10/2/2000 8:22:09 PM
From: J Krnjeu	Respond to of 65232

Hello Voltaire, RMBS never join JEDEC and told them about their patents in 1996 by a letter RMBS sent to JEDEC. JEDEC never followed up on the patents, they said letter was nothing more than a membership letter. electronicnews.com NEWS: October 2, 2000 JEDEC in Rambus Crossfire Standards body gets caught in memory feud By Steven Fyffe Rambus Inc. has enraged many players in the DRAM industry with its campaign to collect royalties on widely used SDRAM and double data rate (DDR) memory. And as the industry's heavy-hitters launch their legal counterattacks, the Joint Electron Device Engineering Council (JEDEC) is stuck in the middle. The venerable industry-standards body was blissfully unaware of the storm brewing over SDRAM patents until Rambus hit Toshiba Corp. and then Hitachi Ltd. with demands for royalty payments earlier this year. Both companies quickly caved in and signed licensing agreements. Until then, Rambus had seemed to be just another member of JEDEC's JC-42 committee, working to develop an open industry standard for next-generation SDRAM from 1992 to 1996. Now Micron Technology Inc., Hyundai Electronics Industries Co. Ltd. and Infineon Technology A.G. are accusing the Mountain View, Calif.-based Rambus of breaking JEDEC's rules and tricking its members, in various lawsuits scattered across the globe. "We believe Rambus participated in JEDEC activities and got some of the patent ideas from the JEDEC discussions," said Farhad Tabrizi, vice president of strategic marketing and product planning with Hyundai's DRAM Business Unit. He has a long history of involvement with JEDEC, first as a representative of Hitachi and later on behalf of Hyundai, which is now suing Rambus. Tabrizi said he was suspicious about Rambus' motives for joining JEDEC from the start. Why would a small company selling a proprietary memory technology want to join a standard-setting group, when it clearly was not going to push direct Rambus DRAM (RDRAM) as an open standard? The reasons are clear today, he said. "Anything that they felt was patentable, even though it was a public idea, they patented," he said. "We believe their conduct was unethical. They did not follow the normal rules of the open standards. They were very aware of JEDEC's policy, however, they did not follow those rules and regulations. Unfortunately, the patent office has granted them some patents that we think are invalid." JEDEC is worried that the widely publicized conflict will tarnish its reputation as a place where competitors can freely share ideas without the threat that those ideas might be stolen and used against them. "Whoever wins or loses, there has been a question raised as to whether or not a company can safely disclose information without fear that the information is going to be used to their detriment," said John Kelly, president of JEDEC. "In the final analysis, we are not a stakeholder. Our interest is in maintaining the integrity and reliability of the process. We want to make sure that however this case turns out, JEDEC remains a standards-setting body that the industry can depend on in the future." "If parties participate in JEDEC with knowledge of a pending patent relevant to a standard in development and don't say anything, it clearly undercuts the entire process and makes it extremely difficult for other companies to participate." Which is exactly what Micron and Hyundai allege Rambus did when it was a member of JEDEC from 1992 to 1996. JEDEC refused to apportion blame. "That's what judges are in the business of doing—determining where the responsibility lies," Kelly said. "If voluntary standards-setting is going to continue in the future, then the courts are going to have to weigh in and clearly identify the lines of responsibility. We're not taking sides in this case. What we are saying is there's an important principle underlying this case." But Kelly did say that there was no way Rambus could not have known that as a JEDEC committee member, it was required to tell the other members that it had applied for patents covering the SDRAM standard under development. Rambus didn't do that, he said. When the disclosure finally came, it was as part of a standard business letter that covered another topic. "Rambus didn't tell the industry that it had patents pending until it withdrew from JEDEC," Kelly said. "They sent a letter basically saying we are not going to pay our dues, and by the way, we have these patents. It's the kind of letter that would go to a membership department. This one had the extra kicker in there." The patents listed in the letter were identified only by number and SDRAM was not mentioned at all. Standard JEDEC protocol is to raise patent issues at a meeting or in a letter addressed to the chairman of the committee, Kelly said. Rambus may have covered itself legally with the letter, but there are some serious questions about whether it acted properly, according to industry observers. Those questions are serious enough that Rambus should withdraw its SDRAM claims, according to Peter Glaskowsky, senior analyst at Cahners MicroDesign Resources. "I don't like the fact that Rambus participated in the SDRAM group without making it very clear they had applied for patents that would be relevant," Glaskowsky said. "Their hands are not sufficiently clean and the water is not sufficiently clear. They muddied the water by not announcing their intent." Thank You JK

To: Voltaire who wrote (5066)	10/2/2000 8:42:32 PM
From: Ex-INTCfan	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 65232

V -- I hope you are right. It doesn't matter though -- it's a no-lose situation. I mean, are the history books going to say something like?: ". . . and the end of capitalism came when INTC, ORCL, MSFT, and CSCO tanked on the same day in October of 2000. People lost their enthusiasm for all tech stocks and the market as a whole forever. Some economists can't understand why these stocks are now trading at PE ratios of less than 2 while their earnings continue to grow at 30% or better, but everyone has accepted this as fact and is happy to make money market returns." Let them take the puppies down for all I care. Then I will buy some more of these lonely shares. Stock certificates need love too you know. I consider it a duty to society to buy these shares from people when they are down. Until I rejoin the Sierra Club, that is going to have to do. And if they go up, then my contribution to society becomes somewhat less, but I can remain modest and happy, since I own a few of these puppies already anyway. INTCfan

To: Voltaire who wrote (5066)	10/2/2000 9:47:16 PM
From: Gregory	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 65232

Hi V! How are you doing? I know you are an old timer. Can tell you that I enjoy reading your posts. I can bet a lot of people are listening to what you are saying. I am. Also have to say that as I see it most of the times what you predict comes out to be correct. So I bet a lot of people become dependent on you. This is a dangerous thing. It always is when you become on somebody completely. It is not just with stocks. Everywhere in the life you can find the parallels. Even with spouses in the marriage it does hurt. Partners in the business also. Etc, etc,etc. Children depending too much on parents it hurts. You can imagine how it could hurt when people are not even blood related. While you can forgive a parent or a child it is much more difficult to forgive a stranger. Specially when you got hurt real bad. Specially when it is your life savings that you accumulated for the rest of your life. I do not know if you did say that, but I hope all that listen to you are adults. Also, they move around thousands of dollars. Sometimes maybe hundreds of thousands. I think you should time from time emphasize (if you did, I apologize, I did not read everything you write, still maybe you should say it more explicitly ) that people even they do listen to your judgement still put their own money on the table. Nobody can be 100% right. Maybe God. All other people sometimes are right , sometimes are wrong. But some people are right more of the times than others. This is how the experience shows itself in all the fields, not just stock picking. I do beleive that you put money where your mouth is, so there nothing else for you to do. This is similar to the civil engineer to stay under the bridge he has built first time the tran goes thru. You do. The problem maybe with people that do not realize that if they put money in the market , it is possible they will loose it. And if the money they put in are the last money they have, most probably they do a wrong thing. Because while Mike Tyson being knocked down will get up and continue fighting, not every one is capable to do that. Anyway, have fun and best regards. Gregory