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To: CharlieChina who wrote (334)	10/5/2000 2:25:33 PM
From: davealex	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 8925

and they target the TA trader's trading models If they are doing this, then traders just change. They adapt. They set their stops a little wider, they react more quickly if a pattern doesn't do what it is supposed to do, they don't enter until it is "more" confirmed than a "normal" confirmation signal. It's a game just like radar detector manufacturers and radar gun manufacturers. Civilization adapts. Ask TraderAlan about this. He has a really good perspective that I am sure will be covered in-depth in his book. ie. is a failed "pattern failure" really a double failure? :-) Dave

To: CharlieChina who wrote (334)	10/5/2000 3:22:06 PM
From: Chip McVickar	Respond to of 8925

Nicholas, <<they are called screen painters ... these individuals have advanced programming and trading skills ... and they target the TA trader's trading models ...>> With due respect, I must disagree with you on the concept that the market is an unfriendly place...poisoned by the "Big Boys"! I believe this mind set, which is based on "Fear," will cause a distorted view of the markets and does not serve us very well. As traders we are NOT at War with each other..., we are simply positioning our decisions to participate and we are either right or wrong. These markets move from a state of equilibrium into chaos and back again, they are certainly in a constant state of adjustment. Certain groups may at certain points be working the markets to their advantage. But this would be very natural and produce short-term effects. Certainly Greenspan manipulated the markets in Oct '98, as did Soros with the pound, Patrick's example, etc....! Technical Analysis was once a province of the few. Now it's openly discussed on SI and sold over the Internet. Yes, some of the better known Simple Moving Averages like the 20/50/200, Fibs and simple Trend Lines are being watched by many more individuals and "Machines," but our abilities to participate with these realities does not reduce our natural abilities to make a TA system work for our particular trading skills. Every single TA indicator can be seen to work and fail at some point. Fibs-SMA-EMA-Oscilators-Pitchforks-Ewaves-wedges-trend lines-candlesticks-5min/15min/60min/120min charts, etc. What matters is finding a system that works for each mind set and learn to use it correctly. I want what the market wants..! There's no disappointed expectations. The market is always right and it's up to us to find it "Friendly." Chip