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Politics : Al Gore vs George Bush: the moderate's perspective -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (1581)	10/8/2000 2:00:21 PM
From: cosmicforce	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 10042

Now we have all of these liberal scientific types out there who tell us that within each criminals heart is a good man waiting to get out... I'd like to see some reference for that statement. It seems to be your opinion, but I doubt that you have any substance or data to back it up. It's like you inserted the word liberal to get a response - is that your intent? Liberal in this context means nothing (to me at least) and I don't see it as adding anything to the conversation. I think that very few people would say what you've asserted. It is much more likely, that ONCE imprinted, people are unlikely to change. Think of it as wet clay. As a child the clay is plastic. As an adult, the clay is dry and rigid. It has been pointed out to me that abusive adults are attracted to the boot camps. Some kids may respond to that, but others won't. It is hard to convince me that these kids just need to be further dominated by new masters. The ring leaders are unlikely to be swayed. They may need permanent incarceration. But I would guess that is maybe 1:10 to 1:5, tops. The alpha males in their groups have already expressed dominance, leadership and intelligence. They plan the crimes. They are the criminal catalysts and need to be removed. They need to have their armies taken from them. The beta males are more willing and able to have their behavior modified. Their commitment to crime is derived more from social ranking than being firmly resolute that crime is "the way". However, you need to provide a real alternative. Merely wishing that they would act differently won't make it happen.

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (1581)	10/8/2000 2:13:17 PM
From: cosmicforce	Respond to of 10042

But the liberals don't like that concept.. Uh, that's what I taught my kids. Guns are heavy, toys generally aren't. If it looks like a gun, go get an adult immediately. Don't pretend to shoot at people even with toy guns. Shoot at objects that don't have people in or near them. Very reasonable. I own guns, do target shooting, and used to hunt. But, that doesn't fit well with the stuff I say does it? Hey, it is a complicated world and labels don't work very well. But guess what, it hasn't blinded me to the fact that gun ownership does not equal a safe country. Safety comes from the social values people have and not whether they own weapons. But if we pretend that all liberals want to strip guns from law abiding gun owners, it allows the party to continue to accept PAC money from gun manufacturers who don't give a darn whether more guns doesn't make crime go away. I say, look at the data. More guns doesn't equal less crime. More prisons doesn't equal less crime. It is time to work and think outside the box. Ron, you really should get out more. Your ideas are so stereotypical on some issues that it is like your talking about the flat earth and are holding up a map to prove it. All that proves is that over very small areas, a flat map is an okay approximation.