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Politics : Al Gore vs George Bush: the moderate's perspective -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (1589)	10/8/2000 3:09:19 PM
From: epicure	Respond to of 10042

"Rather, it's mostly the liberal factions who probably don't believe in spanking their children either.. (go in the corner and have 15 minutes of "time out" instead)" Do you have any empirical data to support this rather odd and sweeping statement? Do you have any data on the efficacy of spanking vs timeouts? Do you have any data on the long term consequences of the two techniques? Do you have any data as to the proportions of "liberals" and "conservatives" who spank their children? Have you any data on the severity of the "spankings" conservatives might be administering? Or should we expect more of your studies with perhaps and n of 1, or two?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (1589)	10/8/2000 3:27:15 PM
From: cosmicforce	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 10042

Okay, I'll accept that the labels liberal and conservative are used in the debates of our political system. But, you see, I question that use as being largely irrelevant and the main use is division of opinion. I could relate my own experience with spanking, having been spanked and rarely done it myself with my own kids. I found that there were far more coercive ways to get my kids to comply than to apply beatings. Removal of privileges and having them see the costs of antisocial behavior is far more compelling because it works even when I'm not likely to find out about an infraction. And I disagree that most liberals don't believe in your right to self defense. My favorite example was Jerry Dunphy in LA who was a rabid anti-gun guy until armed thugs took an hour to enter his Bel Air estate in LA, beat and robbed him. HE changed his opinion and bought a shotgun. Most people who have a brain would not wait for that extreme to come to a reasonable solution. I haven't. So, you can say he was a hypocrite or an intelligent person who checked his facts and ultimately came to the smart choice. I say he corrected a major defect in his world view. But you, my friend, have major defects in your world view, so judge poor ol' Jerry gently. I was talking about voting for felons in the abstract. I was discussing the ramification of removing the vote. I said, if you remember my Claudia Schiffer analogy, that voting was not an important factor in the commission of crime. Since it wasn't then, it was also unlikely to be a factor afterwards. But as a matter of policy, it was not good to remove the option to vote from a large sociological sector. That was all. Your reduction of issues to liberal or conservative may help you make up your mind. I'm here to point out, that I don't fit your labels and that maybe you need to think more about the things you assume to be true. Like spanking. That is not a good way to train an animal or a child. I've trained animals and I think you will find that NO (edit:good) animal trainer uses physical abuse as a conditioning tool. The tool you use (liberal and conservative) is so badly framed as it relates to the problem space as to be worthless.