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Politics : Al Gore vs George Bush: the moderate's perspective -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Zeev Hed who wrote (2389)	10/13/2000 11:14:23 PM
From: Rambi	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 10042

Hi Zeev, First, I hope you understood that I used the term "killing the baby" to communicate the tenor of the argument being used at the Bush thread. It is not a reflection of my personal beliefs. I was astonished at the strangely facile ability in some of the men there to call early term abortion murder, condemn in the most denigrating terms any woman who obtains one and yet ok the procedure ("killing") under certain circumstances that meet "their" approval. I don't find an argument with a Biblical origin particularly convincing from either side, because as you said, it is a religious one, and I'm not religious. You draw a belief from what to a non-believer seems a poetic, metaphorical fairy tale, and that also, to a woman who has born children, has little applicability to the realities of the whole process. I really appreciate your statement that to impose the interpretation on others is an infringement. I only wish everyone saw it that clearly. How interesting that the dictum "Multiply!" is the source of the rules against both masturbation and abortion! Although I don't think that's what parents were thinking when they said, "Your face will break out!" or "YOu will get a terrible disease."

To: Zeev Hed who wrote (2389)	10/13/2000 11:20:49 PM
From: Rambi	Respond to of 10042

P.S.- English challenged? You? I don't THINK so!!! (We should be all be that challenged!) PPS- is a PS (post script) on SI really a PP (post post)

To: Zeev Hed who wrote (2389)	10/13/2000 11:24:00 PM
From: Fiscally Conservative	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 10042

By the way, my authority on the time when life starts comes from the Bible, Genesis, 2:7.."Then the Lord G-D formed man out of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living being." Quite clearly, after man was formed, he was not alive, only after he took his first breath he becomes a "living being".------------------------------------------------------------ Maybe it is not so clear a picture. GOD breathing the breath of life into man allows many to draw a mental picture of life not existing in man without GOD's breath,granted.In understanding life as we know it today that explanation is much too shallow.(although I believe we would not exist without his devine gift of life) An infant does not breath on own until born because mother provides in utero. In utero there is nothing to breath but a watery mixture and yet the infant does practice breathing this liquid-it helps in the lung development. Actually I am aware of premature infants not living long because of their premature lungs,but today there are procedures that allow their tiny lungs to continue their development outside utero. Man's intervention. Actually the infant breaths a liquid which keeps the lungs moist all the time thereby allowing continued growth over time until one day the infant is capable of breathing by itself. This is but one procedure,there are others to aid the infant depending on the conditions the infants presents.

To: Zeev Hed who wrote (2389)	10/14/2000 6:55:35 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 10042

but calling it "killing" is nothing short of ridiculous, since you cannot kill something which is not alive. Your argument here is nothing short of ridiculous. You can not kill what is not alive and there is not the tiniest bit of doubt that a fetus is alive. There is an argument about whether it should be considered to have any human rights but there is no dobut that it is alive. By the way, termination of pregnancy is also forbidden by the bible, but that sin is against the dictum of "thou shall multiply", another sin against the same dictum is male (not female) masturbation. So, as far as I can see, the severety of the sin of abortion is on the same level as the sin of male masturbation. I presume you would recommend policing all those youngsters and assure they do not commit that sin against the dictum "thou shall multiply". I think you are wrong here. Its more a violation of "thous shalt not kill". In nay case it's rather irrelevant as far as I am concerned. I don't oppose abortion because of the Bible or anything some religon might say. I appose it because I oppose killing unborn children. If you can find a spot in the Bible that argues "abortions are good have them whenever you can", it would not change my opinion. Tim