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To: EJhonsa who wrote (7591)	10/15/2000 3:16:48 PM
From: maxgo	Respond to of 34857

OT Aristophanes - The clouds as symbol In the comedy "The Clouds" Socrates is portrayed as a protagonist of the new school in contrast to the old school of the sophists. Socrates sits in the clouds and says to Strepsiades: "Do you want to talk to the clouds which are our gods?"(scene one). Later in that scene Socrates persuades Strepsiades that godfather Zeus doesn´t exist and the true gods are only the clouds as Zeus (who is symbolised by thunder and lightning) can never be seen whereas thunder and lightning are in reality caused by the clouds, which therefore must be the gods. So the clouds are a symbol of the new school of Right Reason, not of the old school of Sophistry. In the end Strepsiades is disappointed by the new school and its new gods. His son (who learned how to become a sophist) demonstrates the power of Sophistry in an argument against him. Strepsiades sets fire to the school building of Socrates (end of last scene). As Eric Jhonsa has pointed out in his posts so nicely and much better worded than I ever could the comedy mocks Sophistry and the the school of Right Reason, demonstrating the validity and the limits of both.

To: EJhonsa who wrote (7591)	10/15/2000 4:17:34 PM
From: Gary Kao	Respond to of 34857

OT Post: You must have double majored in Philosophy and Finance! If you ever decide to return to academia, I am sure you could carve out a great career carving out a new field: The Philosophy of Finance! This new field would be highly distinguished from that dirty, tainted so-called science of Economics, which arguably has brought us such illuminating disasters as the IMF, or the LTCM fiasco (involving several Nobel-prize winners no less!). Speaking of Nietzsche, it is truly ironic that he became a favorite of the Nazis, who were the ultimate Sophists. Gary Eric wrote: >Thanks. Although this is a highly subjective question with no definitive answer given that Aristophanes currently isn't around for an interview, I took "the clouds" to be a reference to the unstable ground upon which the values of those who practiced Sophistry could possibly stand on.