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Politics : Should God be replaced? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: GUSTAVE JAEGER who wrote (1856)	10/19/2000 12:53:31 PM
From: epicure	Respond to of 28931

Greg is trying to use that urge to marvel as proof of his theology. That doesn't work. I have nothing against marveling at things- whether the marveler is ignorant or educated. What I DO have something against is bad logic.

To: GUSTAVE JAEGER who wrote (1856)	10/19/2000 1:33:21 PM
From: cosmicforce	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 28931

Welcome Gustave, I think the Universe just is! Solon and I went around and around about this. It is people that seem to feel the need to seek meanings and not the Universe. While I tend to have a spiritual orientation as expressed in my screen name (I'll explain it now to avoid confusion) it is only a metaphor for the Cosmos (my interest in astronomy) and Force (like those of physics - another interest). I make a living putting together seemingly unrelated facts into a cogent system of explanation for companies filled with people who can't or won't do this. I work across the disciplines of material science, optics, physics and computer science. But with that said, I think each of us is a cosmic force which are manifestations of The Cosmic Force. This thing is not good or bad in the sense that many want to believe, based upon Judeo-Christian principles. Nature has its own reasons for being that, while generally not at odds with human reasons, are apart from our reasons. Religions seek to find meaning where none may be apparent. The starry night gazing should fill you with something more than mindless joy but also feelings of terror. The "beautiful" sky is awash with horrors of every kind. They are only beautiful because they are remote or not understood by the observer. I can guarantee you if YOUR sun is the Crab Nebula's sun, you weren't too tickled when it went off. There is a constant push and pull of wills in the Universe. That is opinion, and not fact. Yet, it appears to be true. In well-controlled studies, will does seem to change the standard odds on the dice. Rather than recap that again now, I'd encourage you to read my posts of a month ago (I'll look them up and publish their links if you have an interest). Much of what we see IS understandable, but requires that we modify our view of God to include those things we don't understand. That very question (and the question posed by the thread's charter) brought me here to Solon's thread.

To: GUSTAVE JAEGER who wrote (1856)	10/19/2000 5:50:47 PM
From: Solon	Respond to of 28931

And I for one feel that this kind of marvelling at the world's spectacle holds true not only for naive children, but for scientific geniuses and philosophers as well. Hi Gustave! You are correct in that. The marvel is the awe of the unknown and the mysterious. I remember when I first heard notes being played on a piano. I stayed up all night playing the keys, enthralled with the experience. The years between 5 and 10 were the most wondrous years of my life. Almost everything was unknown and magical. Those days are long gone, but I still find wonder in the infinite sphere beyond the known and commonplace. I guess when it comes to the question of placing beliefs behind our wonderment (such as Faith encourages us to do)--what we decide is worthy of faith, trust, hope, and love---depends from our subjective knowledge base. I don't know if you have lurked on the thread, but the big polarizations here have come, not from the common capacity to wonder...but on the differing sense of what is wonderful...