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Politics : Should God be replaced? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: E who wrote (2290)	10/23/2000 2:19:12 AM
From: epicure	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 28931

For some rather bizarre reason, even though we state if over and over again, people will continue to assume relativists can't believe in law and order- when that is simply not the case. But no matter how you slice it- they will NOT believe. I've been trained to uphold the law. I've sworn to uphold the Constitution in court, and I mean it- even though I'm a relativist. But no matter- it will all come up tomorrow or the next day, exactly the same, sigh.

To: E who wrote (2290)	10/23/2000 5:32:49 AM
From: Greg or e	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 28931

Hello E "It is bizarre to think that only a stipulated God-rule counts" I don't recall saying anything like that. People individually and societies collectively, make rules all the time. My point was that when you eliminate the ultimate moral reference point(God) then the inescapable conclusion that one is forced to is that it is impossible to say that anything is absolutely right or wrong. Take child molestation, for example. I can tell you how I feel about it(bad) or we could take a vote and find out if four out of five dentists agree(probably bad), or we could ask the experts if we could find any (probably good for the kid), or perhaps we could just turn over all our decisions to some dictator who will tell us what is permitted and what is not(who Knows). The one thing we cannot ever do is say that anything is absolutely wrong. Yet we know in our hearts that some things are just wrong, we can't escape it. The problem is exasperated by the fact that humans are a deeply flawed and exhibit an insatiable desire to not only do wrong, but to then justify those actions, usually by blaming the victim. (She deserved it, did you see that dress she wore, she wanted it etc etc etc.) The problem as I see it, is that having rejected the ten commandments the best we can come up with is ten suggestions, and as we all know, suggestions are just that. So you can say to me "we have this little humanist club down by the river and we came up with these guidelines that we would like you to consider, but we are not saying that they are true (truth is self determined) and we're not saying they are binding (that would restrict freedom) but we believe we would all be better off if we would all just get along. To which I might reply the way Tonto did to the Lone Ranger when they were hopelessly surrounded by hostile Indians, "What you mean we, White man?" After taking your suggestions under careful consideration I have decided not follow them. Instead I have opted to follow my evolutionary and biologically determined urges to rape, kill, and destroy, but hey, thanks for asking. Now if Steve, or you are saying that either way these things are forbidden and therefore we can get rid of God and yet retain the same level of morality, then I disagree and I'll tell you why. First; feelings can change. Second; democracy can be manipulated and for out of five dentists can change their votes. They might even be persuaded to kill all the Jews, or Atheists, or Christians. It's happened before and it looks to me like it will happen again. Third; experts are frequently wrong. Scientists change their theories as often as they change their underwear. Finally; there are good dictators and there are not so good. Frankly the reason that there is any similarity between Biblical and Atheistic humanism is that even Atheistic humanists are created in the image of God and have His law written on their hearts. This is one of the reasons that God can and does hold all people responsible for their actions, Having this intuitive knowledge of right and wrong we nevertheless turn away and do what we want to do anyway. "The heart has it's reasons"(Woody Allen) Today anyone who says homosexuality is wrong is considered to be a homophobe. I fully expect that soon, those who say pedophilia is wrong or is a sickness will be labeled as a pedophobe. It's already started. Wadaya think? Goodnight. Greg