To: Alighieri who wrote (126729 ) 10/23/2000 4:07:44 PM From: Joe NYC Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1578423 Al,OT Here is the link on incarceration I found: fathers.ourfamily.com I know nothing about the source, other than the fact that it is the first relevant thing that came up in my google search.If crime rates are higher in the US, it only stands to reason that the incarceration rate is also higher. Crime is not something like rain that just comes naturally. It is committed by people - criminals, and the US has far more of them than any civilized country. Even after incarcerating 10x as more people than Europe, there are still plenty of them out there committing more crimes, more than any other civilized country. I think the question should be: How many more would have to be in jail to make the crime rates in the US as low as other European countries and Japan? From this, using simple arithmetic, you could calculate that for example (just a guess) that the US has 20x the number of violent criminals of Germany, Iceland, Japan. From this, if you wanted to get some reasonable estimate how much the gun ownership matters, you would have to divide the gun crimes by the multiple of the incidence of criminals in the US. Notice I said gun ownership, not gun laws, since the gun laws do nothing about current gun ownership. Gun laws may have effect in 20, 50 or 100 years, or whatever they replacement period for guns is. My opinion is that the people who expect tangible results from the change of the gun laws are deluding themselves. To make a difference in gun related crimes, an outright confiscation of guns combined with replacement of violent US population with less violent population of Japan or Europe in the territory of United States would have to take place. Joe