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Politics : Should God be replaced? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ilaine who wrote (2776)	10/26/2000 11:44:13 PM
From: E	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 28931

You said this, and I am tired of reminding you of it to no avail: "I see you've abandoned your argument that atheists are as ethical as believers." "Abandoning your argument that" = conceding or giving up your former point "That atheists are as ethical as believers" = that atheists are as ethical as believers Show me where I did that, Cobe. A hundred bucks if you can. You don't get the hundred for posting the obvious, and irrelevant, yet again-- that it is my oft-iterated position, (mine and Webster's), that atheism is a belief that there is no God, and theism a belief that there is. To ascertain the relative ethical status of a given atheist and theist, you must seek information on that subject, because with only those labels, you have none, any more than you are in possession knowledge about their temperaments or taste in music (and as we know, there is no evidence that atheists are, on average, less ethical than theists, the Pope's blaming of the Holocaust on atheists notwithstanding.) Show me where I "abandoned my argument that atheists are as ethical as believers," and I'll put a hundred dollar check in the mail-- a nice dinner out, or even two. Hell, let's make it a thousand. The "dissent" bit is so silly. Your "dissent" is in no way relevant to your problem with me. A thousand. Show me where I did what you claimed I did.

To: Ilaine who wrote (2776)	10/27/2000 12:09:47 AM
From: E	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 28931

I just asked my hubby to read some of these exchanges. He had this thought: He thinks there may be a misunderstanding. He thinks maybe you have gotten it into your head that "atheists" as individuals equates to "atheism" as an opinion. But though atheism is only a statement about one thing, and that thing isn't ethics, atheists as individuals of course have ethics, as theists as individuals do. Their ethics just aren't derived from membership in the category "atheist." Theists as individuals have ethics, too. Their ethics just aren't derived from membership in the category "theist." (That might be puzzling, but I am referring to the fact that Muslim ethics are different from Christian ethics are different from Pantheist ethics are different from Animist ethics are different from Satanist ethics, and if all you know is "theist," you don't know much aside from the fact that some of the class of theists believe that ethics comes from outside man.) I don't know if he's right, but on the chance this is a misunderstanding based on the above, I'm posting it.

To: Ilaine who wrote (2776)	10/27/2000 1:29:48 AM
From: Solon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 28931

No dissent is tolerated. You guys have fun agreeing with each other Sometimes when cherished beliefs are challenged, we humans can engage in bits of self deception, and can waste a lot of time stirring water. Nobody appreciates the feeling of being not tolerated. However, as the above quote makes clear: sometimes plain disagreement is mistaken for intolerance. Actually, disagreement is really only disagreement. This thread has a fairly obvious bias against certain human representations of God. Anyone choosing to come here and speak against that bias, may indeed hear their voice being swept away by the wind. Understandably, being surrounded by contrary opinions is not a pleasant experience. I certainly think that the choice to leave such a biased environment can be a sensible one. Most regulars here do not consider Faith a strong argument for reaching of shared Truth, simply because it cannot be truly shared in a reliable way, but must remain an inner and subjective experience. And as you may know, objective or scientific justification for any one Chosen people, or True God, is somewhat problematical. So I don't know what to say to you. I, for one, will not coddle opinions that I disbelieve in. I do not see the point in such a dishonest approach to others. Whether you wish to believe me or not: I truly tolerate all your opinions; I simply don't expect to agree with many of them, if they are justified by a Faith that runs counter to my own mind. My opinions may be right, or they may be wrong, but they are the oars of my journey through life. I think when people can agree to disagree--it is the furthest thing from intolerance. Finally, this thread covers a controversial topic that almost automatically polarizes people in opposing camps. The huge abyss of opinion also encourages a disdain for some ideas, and sometimes suggests the use of parody or satire to stress the (perceived) foolishness, by the author, of that risible viewpoint that he or she is countermanding. There is nothing the matter with thinking an opinion or idea is absolutely ridiculous, and unjustified by common sense or logic. There is nothing wrong with expressing this derision. But why take it personal. We are not subsumed by our ideas. They are subsumed by us, and may be modified, left alone, or discarded--without any damage to our integrity or our value. Personally, I have antagonism to certain ideas, but this ill will does not extend to the people holding those ideas. Even when I am aware someone is choosing to personalize a difference of opinion, I am not going to go there. They can get over it and become stronger and better people. Anyone that thinks they have the answers is living the dream of fools. We simply believe in the best answers we can. Any path is better than brambles, but we have no evidence where the path leads. While on my path I will leave my own tracks, I can do no other--but I want you, and others,--to be aware that it is not personal...