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To: TigerPaw who wrote (87264)	11/13/2000 9:53:37 PM
From: waverider	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 152472

i love politics they are so much fun

To: TigerPaw who wrote (87264)	11/13/2000 10:15:04 PM
From: dwight martin	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 152472

The probable scenario is that the recount shows Gore the victor but the Florida Sec. of state refuses to accept the results since they come in after tomorrow. Gore concedes the election to Bush. In two years the Republicans lose both houses of congress decisively as rage for the stolen election continues. That's certainly possible, and palatable to me. But I think, having looked at the the Florida laws involved, that the Democrats will beat the Florida SoS on the 5 P.M. issue. First, there is certainly the provision cited by the vote-snuffers which appears to leave no discretion to the SoS: 102.111 Elections Canvassing Commission.-- (1) Immediately after certification of any election by the county canvassing board, the results shall be forwarded to the Department of State concerning the election of any federal or state officer. The Governor, the Secretary of State, and the Director of the Division of Elections shall be the Elections Canvassing Commission. The Elections Canvassing Commission shall, as soon as the official results are compiled from all counties, certify the returns of the election and determine and declare who has been elected for each office. In the event that any member of the Elections Canvassing Commission is unavailable to certify the returns of any election, such member shall be replaced by a substitute member of the Cabinet as determined by the Director of the Division of Elections. If the county returns are not received by the Department of State by 5 p.m. of the seventh day following an election, all missing counties shall be ignored, and the results shown by the returns on file shall be certified. There is also this provision: 102.112 Deadline for submission of county returns to the Department of State; penalties.-- (1) The county canvassing board or a majority thereof shall file the county returns for the election of a federal or state officer with the Department of State immediately after certification of the election results. Returns must be filed by 5 p.m. on the 7th day following the first primary and general election and by 3 p.m. on the 3rd day following the second primary. If the returns are not received by the department by the time specified, such returns may be ignored and the results on file at that time may be certified by the department. (2) The department shall fine each board member $200 for each day such returns are late, the fine to be paid only from the board member's personal funds. Such fines shall be deposited into the 1Election Campaign Financing Trust Fund, created by s. 106.32. (3) Members of the county canvassing board may appeal such fines to the Florida Elections Commission, which shall adopt rules for such appeals. These two statutes seem in conflict, but the permissive provision is undeniably there as co-equal text. It is also in the section of the law that relates to the duties of the county canvassing board, while the provision cited by the vote-snuffers is in the section of the law dealing with the duties of the [state level] Canvassing Commission (the one Jeb recused himself from). More cogently, there is an obvious conflict between the 5P.M. theory and the undoubted legal right of both the parties to request and receive manual recounts. A manual recount of 400-odd thousand ballots is not possible within the time frame ending at 5PM tomorrow, especially after the first day or two of the allotted time was taken up my the automatic machine recount required by law. This is all the more so because the procedure for getting to a manual recount involves a "pilot" manual recount to determine whether or not the entirety of the ballots should be manually recounted. 102.166 Protest of election returns; procedure.-- (1) Any candidate for nomination or election, or any elector qualified to vote in the election related to such candidacy, shall have the right to protest the returns of the election as being erroneous by filing with the appropriate canvassing board a sworn, written protest. (2) Such protest shall be filed with the canvassing board prior to the time the canvassing board certifies the results for the office being protested or within 5 days after midnight of the date the election is held, whichever occurs later. (3) Before canvassing the returns of the election, the canvassing board shall: (a) When paper ballots are used, examine the tabulation of the paper ballots cast. (b) When voting machines are used, examine the counters on the machines of nonprinter machines or the printer-pac on printer machines. If there is a discrepancy between the returns and the counters of the machines or the printer-pac, the counters of such machines or the printer-pac shall be presumed correct. (c) When electronic or electromechanical equipment is used, the canvassing board shall examine precinct records and election returns. If there is a clerical error, such error shall be corrected by the county canvassing board. If there is a discrepancy which could affect the outcome of an election, the canvassing board may recount the ballots on the automatic tabulating equipment. (4)(a) Any candidate whose name appeared on the ballot, any political committee that supports or opposes an issue which appeared on the ballot, or any political party whose candidates' names appeared on the ballot may file a written request with the county canvassing board for a manual recount. The written request shall contain a statement of the reason the manual recount is being requested. (b) Such request must be filed with the canvassing board prior to the time the canvassing board certifies the results for the office being protested or within 72 hours after midnight of the date the election was held, whichever occurs later. (c) The county canvassing board may authorize a manual recount. If a manual recount is authorized, the county canvassing board shall make a reasonable effort to notify each candidate whose race is being recounted of the time and place of such recount. (d) The manual recount must include at least three precincts and at least 1 percent of the total votes cast for such candidate or issue. In the event there are less than three precincts involved in the election, all precincts shall be counted. The person who requested the recount shall choose three precincts to be recounted, and, if other precincts are recounted, the county canvassing board shall select the additional precincts. (5) If the manual recount indicates an error in the vote tabulation which could affect the outcome of the election, the county canvassing board shall: (a) Correct the error and recount the remaining precincts with the vote tabulation system; (b) Request the Department of State to verify the tabulation software; or (c) Manually recount all ballots. * * * Finally, in light of all this statuory law, and a common sense understanding that millions of people are not to be disenfranchised by ambiguous language imposing a deadline made meaningless by the existence of the absentee ballot question which all agree cannot be resolved before Friday in any case, it is the height of arrogant fatuity for the Republicans to deny that the deadline should be waived to allow the manual recount provided by law, but agree that it should be waived in case of a hurricane. Probability of slam dunk tomorrow for the Democrats? Unknown. The correct legal answer? Either the 5P.M. mandatory deadline (.111) is outright unconstitutional, or it is seen as "directory, not mandatory," thus preserving the constitutionality of the [poorly drafted!!! - Jeez!] statute.