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Politics : Why is Gore Trying to Steal the Presidency? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: rich4eagle who wrote (574)	11/15/2000 9:53:52 PM
From: Carolyn	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 3887

Garbage. Gore requested a hand recount in Palm Beach County. He got this. He lost. Elections have been held the first Tuesday of November for generations. Why should this one be any different?

To: rich4eagle who wrote (574)	11/15/2000 10:06:56 PM
From: The Philosopher	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 3887

Nobody wants to stop vote counting. They want to stop vote stealing. That isn't democracy. It's Daleyism. What worked in Chicago in 1960 (I know, I lived through it) won't work in Florida in 2000.

To: rich4eagle who wrote (574)	11/15/2000 10:22:45 PM
From: Dr. Voodoo	Respond to of 3887

Democrats want to recount every vote in the state of florida until the entire country is sick. When it's all said and done the vote count might swing how many votes in the state of Florida? You think any Republican is going to accept the results of a single hand count without looking at the first two counts when the ballots (all 6 million I might add) have been fooled with to see if they can find pregnant chads? It aint gonna matter. You guys are just wasting everyones time money and effort to try and get a statistical edge to prolong what will be a never be ending search for a hopelessly uncertain outcome. Two votes favor bush.

To: rich4eagle who wrote (574)	11/15/2000 11:23:57 PM
From: lml	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 3887

rich4: Glad to have you here to debate the issues. It's been too one sided here for the past 24; welcome aboard. First, to say that Bush supporters do not FAVOR democracy is start off here on the wrong foot. That's simply not true. I think ALL Americans cherish democracy, and our democracy can only preserved if the rules of law are upheld. Recognize that there are rules that govern elections. This is something that Al Gore's Democratic campaign have clearly shown that they do not respect as evidenced last week by the early comments by his campaign manager the dis-honorable William Daley. He basically came into the State of Florida and said, and I paraphrase, "we don't care about the results, we are gonna be here and demand a recount of the vote until we win, and if necessary, we will go to court. Now let's talk about the rule of law. If the Democrats had adhered to the rule of law that would first note that the election held on Nov. 7 was the complete and exclusive jurisdiction of the State of Florida, not the Democratic Party, not Warren Christopher and his team of lawyers. If the Democrats held any respect for the rule of law they would have kept their ugly butts out of Florida and let the Florida Election Code rule the day, that is, require a mandatory recount. Instead, the Democrats blew into town, blew into Palm Beach, brought the Reverend and instigated hysteria about how the ballot was illegal, how voters were turned away at the polls. All bogus BS, and nothing but a PR attempt to gain favor with America's public. It hasn't worked. . . . all you folks want to stop the vote sorting process in it's tracks because you like the outcome as it stands today. This is simply not true. I, and I am willing to bet many others here support the first recount, and the reasonable of each board to conduct a one percent manual account when the CIRCUMSTANCES merited it. But I think what really got many people uneasy were the tactics the Democratic party was taking to instill their will, their desires into the process, and then witness the blatant subjectivity and selectivity available to an overly democratic makeup of the canvassing board. It soon came to a realization that such a process could not possibly be objective, and one where more important than process, was the goal, to find enough votes for Al Gore. In short, what is taking place with a manual recount is NOT a simple RE-COUNT of the vote, but rather a FISHING EXPEDITION in search of votes for Al Gore. How can the American people trust such a process? How can such a process be representative of a democracy? You, of course, would like to believe that the machine count was fraught with defects. It is true it is not a perfect system. What is IMPORTANT to consider before judging the integrity of the machine count is to compare its accuracy with the accuracies of other voting districts that use machine counting. By accuracy, I include the statistical history of rejecting unreadable ballots due to no holes punched or two holes punched where there should be only one. In short, in many counties throughout the county that use the hole-punch system like that in Palm Beach County typically rejects about 5 percent of the ballots submitted. While this is unfortunate, it is statistically common, and no basis to overturn a machine count result. Of course, you think otherwise. Why? 'Cuz Al Gore didn't win. What you fail to understand, and appreciate, is that a manual count is not going to provide a more accurate account of the will of the people than the machine count because of the inherent bias of the officials who are responsible for interpreting the intent of the voter expressed by a chad, whether swinging, hanging, or even impregnated. There MUST BE rules to determine an read of hole-punched ballot, but there ARE NONE, yet the manual count continues.

To: rich4eagle who wrote (574)	11/16/2000 6:01:41 AM
From: Cola Can	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 3887

Most of you folks are totally partisan totally biased and not too in favor of democracy Totally partisan huh? Read this democrat! WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. — Five observers to Saturday's hand count in Palm Beach County have filed affidavits in federal court charging that a Democratic county commissioner manipulated ballots so Al Gore would receive more votes than George W. Bush. Carol Roberts, a de facto appointee to the three-member elections canvassing board, is accused in the filings of asking a Democratic observer to the count whether ballots should count and that she "twisted the ballots and poked her finger directly in sections of, and aggressively handled, the ballots." On one occasion, observer John Grotta said in a sworn statement, Miss Roberts looked at a ballot and said " 'Unfortunately, the corners aren't detached,' as she was referring to a ballot that would have been a vote for Vice President Gore." The most pointed charges in the affidavits were cited in a request by the Palm Beach Republican Party that Miss Roberts, a longtime Democrat, step down from the board because of her partisan behavior in last week's sample count of 4,600 ballots. When the count found that Mr. Gore netted 19 more votes, Miss Roberts was adamant about a full recount, asserting that Mr. Gore could claim as many as 1,900 more votes based on the sampling. Miss Roberts refused to remove herself from the panel, saying in a public statement — read by canvassing board chairman Charles Burton to a press gallery that is now an encampment outside the Emergency Operation Center here — that the count was done "in full view of public observers from both parties and cameras from all over the world. "All board members examined and voted on all questioned ballots and nearly all votes were unanimous. . . . I will continue to be fair and impartial and will not recuse myself." Yesterday, Miss Roberts publicly challenged the election powers of Secretary of State Katherine Harris, a Republican, in the recount dispute, saying Attorney General Robert Butterworth, a Democrat, had the proper authority. Mrs. Harris has been the target of Democrats, who claim she is partisan and must recuse herself. The partisan rancor has completely divided the sides in the manual recount debate. Palm County's hand count was delayed yesterday pending the state Supreme Court's opinion on the legal standing of the process. The charge against Miss Roberts "is not a witch hunt," said Mark Hoch, administrator for the county's Republican Party. "We have complaints coming out of the woodwork, and most of the things we look at are unsubstantiated," Mr. Hoch said. "Carol Roberts, though, can be seen as truly partisan." Miss Roberts arrived at the emergency center around 6:15 a.m. yesterday with a sheriff's deputy bodyguard and a personal assistant. As a vocal advocate of the manual count in both Palm Beach County and three other surrounding — and Democrat-dominated —counties, Miss Roberts has thrived on the controversy surrounding the recount. At one point this week, Miss Roberts said she would go to jail to have the manual recount accomplished. In Palm Beach County, recounts by hand and machine have added 787 votes for Mr. Gore to an extra 119 for Mr. Bush — a net Gore pick up of 668. The affidavits filed yesterday also include charges that elections workers were reluctant to reassess votes despite the protests of observers. In one case, a worker refused to recount a stack of ballots that contained Bush votes, according to observer Mark Klimer. Mr. Klimer's statement included the accusation that Miss Roberts picked up ballots from a stack that was to be evaluated later by the entire board and interspersed them with a stack of Gore votes. He also said the ballot evaluation was inconsistent. Some ballots judged as Gore votes did not meet the agreed standards for a valid vote, the West Palm Beach banker said. Mr. Klimer said yesterday he was in the counting room for 4 and 1/2 hours on Saturday. A Republican, Mr. Klimer said his interest was not partisan: "I was there to make sure it was fair." "Beyond a shadow of a doubt, what I saw is the absolute truth," Mr. Klimer said. Miss Roberts is one of three Democrats on the seven-member County Commission. She was elected in 1986 after serving 11 years on the West Palm Beach City Council. When she became president of the Florida Association of Counties in 1996, Miss Roberts took some heat for marking the occasion with three days of festivities paid for with $55,000 from her business friends. Still think "hand counts" are fair and more accurate? Criminals in office create laws to benefit the criminal. Stick with machine counted votes and be done with it. Machine counts aren't partisan. How come you want non-partisan truth, but refuse to accept it. Bush won, now accept defeat.