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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: greenspirit who wrote (99582)12/3/2000 4:55:01 PM
From: Don Pueblo  Respond to of 769670
 
Exactly correct. Exactly right.



To: greenspirit who wrote (99582)12/3/2000 4:55:01 PM
From: Don Pueblo  Respond to of 769670
 
edit



To: greenspirit who wrote (99582)12/3/2000 4:56:31 PM
From: Nadine Carroll  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 769670
 
That looks like an interesting case.

I suppose the argument for tossing some absentee ballots would have to rest on skewing of the results.

For example, if you had a county they normally voted 50-50 Democratic and Republican, and both parties sent out 10,000 ballot applications lacking voter ids, and then ONLY the Republicans were allowed to fix the applications while the Democrats were told to fly a kite. As a result the absentee ballots came in 4 to 1 Republican. In such a case (purely hypothetical) you could argue that the elections officials' misconduct had subverted the will of the people, and the absentee ballots should be thrown out.



To: greenspirit who wrote (99582)12/3/2000 6:21:55 PM
From: Ellen  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 769670
 
Now that's really interesting and, to my mind, much more significant than an analyst's opinion. Thanks for the link. Great food for thought.

a trial court’s factual determination that a contested certified election reliably reflects the will of the voters outweighs the court’s determination of unintentional wrongdoing by election officials in order to allow the real parties in interest--the voters--to prevail. By unintentional wrongdoing, we mean noncompliance with statutorily mandated election procedures in situations in which the noncompliance results from incompetence, lack of care, or, as we find occurred in this election, the election officials’ erroneous understanding of the statutory requirements. In sum, we hold that even in a situation in which a trial court finds substantial noncompliance caused by unintentional wrongdoing as we have defined it, the court is to void the election only if it finds that the substantial noncompliance resulted in doubt as to whether a certified election reflected the will of the voters.

Florida State Statutes also say in 101.61-68, there is a criminal penalty for filling out a ballot application, fraudulently. However, GOP election volunteers filled out correct information (Voter ID numbers) on the ballot applications. The law also states that the ballot can be thrown out only if the electors (voters) signature, and witness, are either false (fraudulent) or missing.


Well, it personally bothers me that this case you cite found as it did, but I understand the reasoning behind it. This case does not, as referred here (I haven't checked the actual link yet), address the other two applicable statutes. So there are still questions, at least in my mind, about this.

> Think about this....if you show up to vote without your voter registration card, poll workers routinely look you up in the book of registered voters. After finding your name, and presenting I.D. you are allowed to vote. Seminole County officials did basically the same thing to absentee voters. <

Now that is a very good point. And I hadn't thought of that before. But what you describe is done with the voter's knowledge because they are standing right there. In the case of the applications, they were altered without the knowledge of the voter which is prohibited by Florida law.

Another consideration:
Did all these voters actually request the application or where they sent unsolicited to the voters? Sending them unsolicited is also against Florida law.

I have a feeling that there is much more to be known here than what has, to date, been reported. It has been reported that the attorney for the plaintiff has received access to applicable records from the election officials, so I will for now just wait to see what is learned & reported from the findings.