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To: Ahda who wrote (61763)	12/6/2000 8:32:09 PM
From: Tom M	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 116837

<< our system now seems to becoming an interpretation of laws for ease of use, for self purpose. The extension of credit out of the business platform into an too easy access in the non business individual, proves our productivity has become to tied to paper which is mostly debt. I fear the above mentioned items are not wise and will change the world perception of just how solvent we are. >> Sad but true, and that "perception" has already happened - as evidenced by what you see in the non-US media & the many non-US posters. Acknowledged in SI post for years, it's finally showing up in everyday US editorials and newbie posters and talk radio. By no means do I want a disaster. Unfortunately, it appears the current THEY do. We could have had and recovered from a couple recessions by now and live in uninteresting times. But that wouldn't have filled the right people's pockets with Billions, not to mention removing same from the wrong people's. I have a feeling we'll be hearing a lot from those Billions in the future, regardless of say Gore conceding tonight. The Gold Coast is alive and well. [Edit] long-gone, just read your posts about the stashed Trillions. Believe it or not, just had the thing about stashing money aside for later in my head after reading Darleen's post & hadn't gotten to your posts yet. Guess my gut feel of Billions was off by a few 000's. <g>

To: Ahda who wrote (61763)	12/6/2000 10:38:03 PM
From: d:oug	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 116837

Darleen, Excellent thoughts from you today, but then to me you always supply answers comments guesses and questions into each of your posts like the ingredients of a bouillabaisse prior to when these various sea lifes still roam the waters and live together love together fight together chase and flee and eat and be eaten and finally end up in that big pot. Someone once told me that if an automobile was to be included into that capsule sent off towards deep outer space so that any aliens far far away thousands years from today can have evidence of life on this planet Earth, that its a Saab 99. Reasons given was that it incorporated the following. - transport up to 5 big people - hatchback version opens and delivers for use a station wagon - safety built like a Volvo - small engine, good gas mileage with enough power available Someone replied "Its not represenative." For example, more Chevy Cameros are sold than this Saab. But the Camero has 2 door, small back seat, no real trunk and an over big powerful engine. Its a car modified in ways counter to purpose and function so that a person's attitude and emotions etc are satisfied. Might a focus on this thread, and to address what you posted be examined in a simple manner like going from point A to B. Both the Saab and a Camero does the job, and where in the Saab case efficiency and safety rule, the Camero delivers to a teenage boy feeling of girl-getting virtuoso. Let me now introduce Freedom of Speech to connect the above sea life forms, automobiles and birds & bees. Legal to shout "Fire", except in a crowded room when no fire. Legal for a bank to offer credit cards, except ??? Have to use RareBird+RonRon+Hutch = a person here. This person has ability of survival skills very high, infact no matter what course they take, education of Ph.D. or highschool dropout, he will be successful in a way equal to what each has already obtained. But this person is not represenative of population, as if you filled that room with these types and they hear "Fire", they would all react very different from that room of a cross section a.k.a. Bell Curve. Now introduce banks and credit cards you mentioned in your post. You I and most likely all SI folks that post on this thread have not fallen into that trap of debt. But there are those out there that make up 90% of the bell curve that do not have those RareBird+RonRon+Hutch characteristics and got into that DOW or Nasdaq with saving money, and later as it continued to go up in value they left that saving cash in the markets and used "temporary" their credit cards to cover expenses normally used with their available savings. Since the markets stayed up and continued to go up they decided that more return would occur by leaving the savings in the markets and use another credit cards advance to start paying that credit card that max'ed out. Then times passes and this second one max'ed out so they start on a third. Now as the markets have fallen, did they sell at the top or on the way down above where they entered? If not then their debt may be more than their savings returned as that investment adjusted for a lost. If so then their credit card debt, a.k.a. very high interest rate loans cannot be payed off, and not only is their savings reduced, but their ability to save reduced also. Thses banks that allow debt to create wealth that RareBird says are Great and Wonderful also have the ability to destroy thoses not a rarebird type, which is 90+% of population. So its ok for Rarebird to be "not concerned" with "Fire", as he can handle the situation ok, most can not. But then if the economy crashes too much, then it will be those like Rarebird who continue to be productive, to be the ones who pay taxes to support those who lost their jobs and homes etc. From above. Legal to shout "Fire", except in a crowded room when no fire. Legal for a bank to offer credit cards, except ??? I'm willing to let those who make mistakes take a fall, but when the banks make it "too easy" along with the message from mainstream press that economy strong now & forever, then to me its a trap and set-up for the weak by those who are the strong+evil+corrupt. Whose the guilty party here, for this example. banks? media? folks trapped? No one broke the law. No one forced. Rarebird mentioned common sense in his post. He has it, but down that bell curve its magnitude may decrease, but more importantly is that those with good common sense do not have what it takes to prevent evil manipulation to con them. Solution = more laws, I say no. Solution is to enforce existing laws, but first those who we have elected or appointed to do such have to be examined by those like Rarebird to see if they are doing their jobs. Just so long that Rarebird "has the world by the tail" and is doing great and wants it to continue, then what you and I talk about will continue, and worst case is that it will bring down everyone including Rarebird. The evil manipulated gold market is not the tip of an iceberg, but just one small portion of incorectness that shows itself as symptoms of a house of cards build on a rotten foundation of the battle between Good v Evil with Evil winning. (off topic) Darlene, any chance that you speak write French or Spanish or another that translators are available for on the internet. If so and you can do it better than English, then try an experiment and write it in that other one and translate it into English and see if it equals what you would have done directly. I cannot do any other language, just my poor English. You did mention that your thoughts are two sentences ahead of what you type into the keyboard. dougak23

To: Ahda who wrote (61763)	12/7/2000 12:58:22 AM
From: Rarebird	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 116837

My question was: "The USA has become the wealthiest nation in the history of civilization. Obviously something has been done right. What do you think that is?" Your answer was: "Freedom the ability to grow without governments interference." Clearly, your making reference to Adam Smith, the famous eighteenth century economist, who published An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations in 1776. Although he's credited with "laissez-faire" economics (the principle that the free market, not the government, is the best arbiter for economic progress), many seem to have forgotten his dictum regarding government's role.... Adam Smith said it's a government's duty to provide a nation with five basics: defense, justice, education, infrastructure, and a stable currency. After providing those, he said, it is then that the government should stay out of the free market's way. Adam Smith's economic philosophy is correctly termed, laissez-faire liberalism. If the government is successfully providing the nation with Adam Smith's imperatives – defense, justice, education, infrastructure, and a stable currency – it is investing successfully in the nation's future. But that begs the question of how we can judge the overall success and failure of our investments.... In my world, which is real concrete and not full of moralistic hype, I can tell you easily how we know we've been making good investments? The bottom line is this: the lenders are already telling us how well we're doing. If I'm a good credit risk, my banker will be glad to lend me money for a new car or house; if I'm not, he won't. If a retailer has a good track record, lenders will demand a relatively low interest rate for their bonds. If my local government has succeeded in growing its tax base, in part by successfully educating its growing population, lenders will be happy to buy municipal bonds that help build new schools. Lenders – those who make the market for debt instruments – are already telling us how well we're doing. Guess what the lenders think is one of the safest investments on the entire planet? That's right – bonds offered by the Department of the Treasury of the United States of America. Federal debt. Lenders worldwide are glad that the USA wants to borrow some of their money. Why? Because they know with certainty that they'll get their interest payments and their principal back -- in full, and on time. PS Quantity of Debt in relation to equity, along with the accompanying interest rate and ever changing inflation rate is what matters most.