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To: yard_man who wrote (44751)	12/6/2000 7:51:38 PM
From: robnhood	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

Gimme a break Tip. Dumping barrels of anything into lakes can hardly be described as innocent mistakes. Oh yes , and coal.. I recently saw an ad somewhere promoting coal by using the message that the byproduct from it's use was great for trees , and by extrapolation, great for the environment. <<dealogues -- I have one in my own family -- say that clean air and water are priceless, but they all drive cars, use synthetic materials and eat foods (meats) that require huge energy inputs without a thought -- they think that if we could just pay enough taxes and include enough "externalities" in the price of the goods we consume -- supposedly we could live in some ideallly clean world. It is just not true ... >> The problem is that the Corporations are stealling our environment and selling it back to us cheaply. The price for proper disposal etc. is not included in the original price. The real cost in most cases comes much later in the form of huge medical costs, and evironmental degradation and cleanup costs usually dropped on the taxpayers door mat.

To: yard_man who wrote (44751)	12/6/2000 7:55:25 PM
From: wsringeorgia	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

Tippet, do you know that a lot of people really believe that CO2 can be "scrubbed" or removed with some sort of filter? Well, I guess you COULD remove it but due to entropy at a "energy cost" equal to the amount of heat produced in the intital combustion PLUS adiabatic losses; a loosing proposition much like being long INTC today. You mention methane (CH4) well there is one REAL important difference between that gas and CO2; in the environment CO2 is ONLY reduced by green plants and methane over time participates in a variety of reactions and is slowly removed. In lots of ways CO2 is the big worry over the long haul. WSR

To: yard_man who wrote (44751)	12/6/2000 10:13:15 PM
From: GraceZ	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

Thanks for the clarification on the Dioxin. That's what I get for trusting my memory. I think Dioxin is higher on the list than PCBs for carcinogens. There is lots of evidence that former Superfund action has resulted in huge amounts of money being spent on lawyers and very little in actually cleaning up these sites. Its been a fiasco from the start. I got a glimpse into what it was like to be left holding the environmental bag after buying a few rental properties in Baltimore City. The housing stock in Baltimore is loaded with lead paint because most of the houses are older than sixty years. Lawyers put flyers through the mail slots in the city trolling for cases. Your insurance company has a nice fat exclusion clause even if they covered the house from way back when. The government will sign you up for limited liability if you submit to expensive and exhaustive removal and inspection routines. It dawned on me who should have paid for this liability when I went to my paint store to buy lead encapsulation paint (encapsulation is far better than removal). The guy behind the counter said, "Gee, we haven't sold paint with lead in it for twenty years." In the last 10 years landlords that don't want the liability have dumped 40,000 houses on the city. Its done wonders for neighborhoods to have so many vacant houses, not to mention the value of the houses that I'm the proud owner of. What kills me is that most people still don't know how dangerous lead paint removal is and insist on doing it themselves without the proper equipment. I've stopped more than one of my friends with small children from taking a heat gun to baseboards in restoring their old houses. I even had a friend in California tell me that they didn't have a lead paint problem there because no one ever talks about it. She was giving painted wood paneling she ripped out of her old house to a neighbor for a child's playhouse. I convinced them to test it first and it was loaded with lead paint. The environmental nightmare gets a little more personal when its in your basement and some councilor at your child's school is saying you might want to consider getting your son or daughter tested for lead paint poisoning.