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To: Greg S. who wrote (43045)	12/10/2000 12:33:17 AM
From: bosquedog	Respond to of 57584

deleted

To: Greg S. who wrote (43045)	12/10/2000 4:40:02 AM
From: Kanetsu	Read Replies (5) \| Respond to of 57584

What touching thoughts Greg, you must be one hell of a guy. And thanks for reminding me to feel guilty for being a white male, I'd almost forgot. Of course, all that liberal compassion, back of the bus stuff has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. And for the record some of that crap has no basis in fact, at least as it pertains to this election. I gather you are referring to allegations by Jesse Jackson that African-Americans were somehow stopped from voting. But as usual there is no proof or facts to substantiate those allegations, just bluster. The truth is, African-Americans comprise 12% of the population of Florida, yet made up 16% of votes cast on Nov. 7, and set new records for turnout to boot. But don't let the facts get in the way of that bleeding heart of yours. And I suppose you would have no problem if it was Bush winning the election on the fourth count by virtue of dimples on ballots never counted before and divined as votes by his supporters. You say if you had the power to count every vote equally you would, but clearly that is not what is happening here. And that is precisely why the Supreme Court got involved (among other reasons). I pray the nation survives substituting the Constitution for your judgement of what is fair. As for your assertions that Democrats somehow have the moral high ground because they believe in higher taxes for the rich, etc., well I just don't have time to straighten you out on that. But don't for a minute tell me I care any less about the "downtrodden" than you do, we just disagree on the remedy. In fact, I happen to think the policy of Democrats actually hurts minorities for reasons to complex to elaborate on here, but I have strong beliefs in this area. In my opinion Democrats just see minorities as a meaty block of votes - what have they actually ever done for them. And the fact is, Bush would have more African-Americans in high positions in his Cabinet than any other President in history. This is encouraging and important, because more than minorities need government programs, they need role models. I'm not a Republican because I'm a white male, hell I used to practically be a communist and listen to Joan Baez when I was young and naive. I'm a Republican because, having lived in Washington D.C., I've seen the waste and corruption of big government first hand. Higher taxes just shifts money from wealth creators to wealth destroyers, it does nothing to help all those downtrodden people you care so deeply about. If you really want to help the underprivileged, I suggest the Peace Corps, the Democratic Party is a poor substitute. Kanetsu

To: Greg S. who wrote (43045)	12/10/2000 12:52:16 PM
From: oaktownaj	Respond to of 57584

OT always two sides to a story -here is an example of the other side Poverty and the Left jewishworldreview.com -- Dec. 04, 2000 THE PRIVATIONS and sufferings of the poor have long been central themes in the vision of the political left. That is what attracted many of us to the left in our youth. But the actual consequences of the agenda of the left on the poor -- and on others -- is what eventually drove many of us to the right. Most of the leading opponents of the left, in the United States and around the world, began on the left. These include Ronald Reagan, Milton Friedman and the whole neo-conservative movement, as well as Raymond Aron in France and Friedrich Hayek in Austria. There is no comparable exodus from the right to the left. Why is this so? The favorite explanation by those who remain on the left is that their former comrades "sold out." But nobody sells out to the lowest bidder. The real money, for intellectuals at least, is overwhelmingly on the left. Black intellectuals, especially, can easily earn six-figure incomes just from lecture fees alone at colleges and universities around the country. All it takes are some heated accusations of "racism" against whites and denunciations of American society in general, with perhaps a few antisemitic remarks thrown in for good measure. Nowhere can you make more money with less effort or ability. By contrast, there is very little demand for conservative speakers -- black or white -- on campus, and the few who show up are likely to be heckled or shouted down. Nor are journalism or the arts havens for conservatives. Far from it. Whatever blacklist existed against Communists and their fellow-travelers in Hollywood during the McCarthy era, it has been completely outstripped by the blacklisting or intimidation of conservatives there now. If the exodus from the left is not due to people selling out to the lowest bidder, then what does cause it? Let us go back to the poor. Why are we concerned about them? Some are concerned lest the poor have inadequate food, shelter or other basic requirements for life. Others are concerned because of the inequalities, disparities or "gaps" that they represent. And still others are concerned because the poor can serve as a rationale for increasing the political power of the left. Those who are primarily concerned about the well-being of the poor are likely to discover over time that much of the agenda of the left does not really do much good for the poor, and some of that agenda -- environmental extremism, for example -- actually makes the poor worse off. Meanwhile, nothing has a track record of lifting millions of people from poverty to prosperity like a free market economy. Most officially "poor" Americans today have things that middle-class Americans of an earlier time could only dream about -- including color TV, videocassette recorders, microwave ovens, and their own cars. Moreover, half of all poor households have air-conditioning. Leftist redistribution of income could never accomplish that, because there are simply not enough rich people for their wealth to have such a dramatic effect on the living standards of the poor, even if it was all confiscated and redistributed. Moreover, many attempts at redistributing wealth in various countries around the world have ended up redistributing poverty. After all, rich people can see the political handwriting on the wall, and can often take their money and leave the country, long before a government program can get started to confiscate it. They are also likely to take with them skills and entrepreneurial experience that are even harder to replace than the money. For those of us whose main concern is the well-being of ordinary people, it is a no-brainer to abandon the left as soon as we acquire enough knowledge about what actually happens, as distinguished from what leftist theories say will happen. It is a very different story for those on the left whose goal is either a self-righteous sense of superiority or the political power with which to express their self-infatuation by imposing their vision on others. Here the poor are a means to an end. These kinds of leftists show remarkably little interest in the creation of wealth, which has raised living standards for the poor, as compared to their obsession with redistribution, which has not. These kinds of leftists concentrate on inequalities that can be dealt with by turning money and power over to people like themselves. These kinds of leftists will never desert the cause that serves them so well, no matter how badly it serves others. JWR contributor Thomas Sowell, a fellow at the Hoover Institution, is author of several books, including his latest, jewishworldreview.com Dec 04, 2000

To: Greg S. who wrote (43045)	12/10/2000 3:31:15 PM
From: chowder	Respond to of 57584

Greg, I take no offense to your post. You have your views, I have mine. Your comment, << That's because most Republicans don't know what it's like to be treated unfairly. << I do Greg! I lived in a project as a young child. I also lived and went to school in the ghetto section of Boston. At one point, we were the only White family on our street. I had to learn to fight at an early age because I used to get my butt kicked everyday before school for GP. (That's a term the Black kids used. It meant general principle, meaning me being white.) Greg, during the summer of 69, I had 3 friends shot and killed in gang fights. I thought it was safer to join the Marines during the Viet Nam War. Having grown up in that environment, I can tell you two things. 1. I still have Black friends today. (I never held hard feelings towards Blacks. I thought it was part of growing up.) 2. All people have choices to make. Some people make good choices, some bad. Some people make no choices at all. But they do have the power to choose what they want to do with their lives. I used to be a Democrat Greg, but I got tired of the class envy they continually promoted. I got tired of the racial bias they continued to wave in everyone's face. Jessie Jackson is nothing more than a racial pimp. If there wasn't any racism, (Jessie style), there wouldn't be any need for Jessie Jackson. His goal isn't to wipe out racism, his goal is to maintain power. Being a Republican to me Greg, means helping those less unfortunate than me. My 15 year old son does volunteer work for Homes for Habitat. It's a program where volunteers build a home with donated materials, for poor people. Every home my son has helped build, we've never seen a Black kid helping. (What's up with that?) I like to tease my Black friends about Republicans giving more to charity than Democrats. They often rebuttal my "in jest" comments. However, I was just awarded a certificate, here locally, for my generosity and believe me, my friends haven't heard the end of it yet. I'm going to embarrass them into giving. One of my friends told me they were held down for so long, they don't feel a need to give. Poor excuse in my opinion. We are only held down by the poor choices we make in life, regardless of who we are. That's what America is all about Greg. We have the freedom of choice! You're young, energetic and full of idealism. Now what are you going to contribute to help societies woes? I'm doing my part. It's time for you to do yours. The ball's in your court! Sincerely, dabum