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To: Craig Freeman who wrote (17073)	12/10/2000 2:57:08 AM
From: Craig Freeman	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 60323

Despite all the challenges that have come before us recently, with so many contrary decisions in our courts, and so many arguments for each side in the Election, let us not forget a gift that came before our birth ... by a man, our President at the time, whose greatest wish was to bring together the desparate parts of our nation to form a lasting singularity: "Four score and seven years ago, our fathers brought forth upon this continent a new nation: conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Now we are engaged in a great civil war. . .testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated ... can long endure. We are met on a great battlefield of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that this nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this. But, in a larger sense, we cannot dedicate. . .we cannot consecrate ... we cannot hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember, what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us ... that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion ... that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain ... that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom ...and that government of the people ... by the people ... for the people ... shall not perish from this earth." Craig

To: Craig Freeman who wrote (17073)	12/10/2000 3:56:41 AM
From: Tumbleweed	Respond to of 60323

OT; Votes Craig, here in the UK we have the luxury of having decided what constitutes a valid vote ahead of time. Its a combination of a simple rule, and the 'Mk 1 eyeball'. When I see all these discussions about votes having been counted or not, doesn't it all come down to the fact that no one had the good sense to decide in advance what constituted a valid vote? If you wait until after the election, you're in trouble, as we see. For some reason, peoples opinions on what constitutes such a vaalid vote mysteriously seem to follow whichever will favour their candidate! Now all we need is for some of the electoral college folks to switch their votes [on grounds that votes weren't fair/counted/whatever], and the brown stuff will really hit the revolving metal object. Good luck, and may I recommend bits of paper and a pencil next time round? Tw

To: Craig Freeman who wrote (17073)	12/10/2000 8:40:41 AM
From: drew_m	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 60323

Craig, Did you not watch any of the HAND counts? Votes are being cast, NOT counted. For example. My Father Voted Straight Dem, but did not cast a vote for Gore,(or Bush either) he could not bring himself to vote for either. In Certian counties this would be a vote for Gore. I consider my Father a pretty normal person. I am confident that a few others made similar choices. The Machine count was well within the margin of error. People have agendas, especially those who are ELECTED officals of one party or another. These people wear Elephant and Donkey stickers durring convention week! We are letting them count, please get real. I belive Stalin is credited with the most fitting quote of all. "Its not who votes in the election that counts, its who counts the votes" The USC would let the count go on, if anyone had confidence that the count was not tainted and comprimised. Drew

To: Craig Freeman who wrote (17073)	12/10/2000 10:59:46 PM
From: Steve 667	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 60323

Craig, I think it is your turn to smoke the pipe. You wrote: "If you don't like the news, have your friends sue again in the U.S. Supreme Court ..." I don't, they did according to law, now I do. I think drew_m is correct. You really should read the Chief Justice opinion. You will find it very enlightening and interesting as I did. You wrote, "Everyone ... I cannot believe that the Supremes decided not to let the ballots be counted. Who would have believed that -- without arguments of any kind -- they would rule? " Very simple. At least 5 of the Justices believe there is a very good probability that the outcome will uphold the constitution, and the law and will find in favor of the plaintiffs. That does not mean that they are certain of the outcome. This is the law regarding legal stays. To quote Craig Freeman from just a few short posts ago: " In the" U.S. of A", we REALLY do believe that our laws are just, ours courts do a fine job of sorting those laws out......When the count is over, then and only then can anyone decide what is fair. If Bush wins, "he will be my President". Yours too. The count is over and Bush more than likely will be "Our president." At least until we see what tomorrow brings. Keep the pipe lit. <g> Steve 667